Author Topic: Three words 1611  (Read 457 times)

Offline goldie61

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Three words 1611
« on: Tuesday 19 December 17 20:13 GMT (UK) »
Does anyone know what the abbreviation here that looks like 'Copp' is please? It appears quite often. The first time it looks more like an 'E' at the beginning of the word, but subsequent ones look more like a 'C'
Copyhold?

Also the word starting with In....... before the Duke of Buckingham.
And the word starting with A........

William Earle of Darby holdeth to him and his heires in fee simple
the Copp    of Bosley within the Forrest of Macclesfield sometyme the
Ins........        of the Duke of Buckingham of the yearely rent of

xlv li xj s vij d to him the said Earle.  In which said Copp  the
said Earle and his A..........  have usually kept a Court Baron


Many thanks
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs

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Offline Old Bristolian

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 20:20 GMT (UK) »
I think the "in" word is Inherytance and the "a" word Ancestors (with contractions). I'm not sure about Copp, but copyhold does sound feasible,

Steve
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon

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Offline Old Bristolian

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 20:22 GMT (UK) »
On second thoughts, are you sure it is a capital "C" - it looks very similar to the "E" in Earle
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon

Offline Bookbox

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 20:27 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps the Lo(rdshi)pp of Bosley, though admittedly it doesn't look much like L.

Offline Raybistre

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 20:50 GMT (UK) »
I agree with Bookbox

lo[rdshi]pp of Bosley

Ray

Offline annmck

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 22:19 GMT (UK) »
I think the reference is to a COPYHOLD TENURE...a manorial land tenure.

It had the forms of Copyhold of Inheritance and Copyhold for Lives, according to W'pedia... :)
Devir/Dever/Diver, O'Donnell, Sweeney, Doherty/Dogherty/Docherty( DON), Flanagan (Newry, DOW), Hennessy (Ballybunion, KER), Nally (Ballinacarrick,WEM) Meer (Paradise, Ballynagard, CLA) McKinnon, McLeod, Beaton, McLennan, (Skye, inc. Raasay) Christie (Dunblane & Glasgow) Wilson, Swan, Orr, (Airdrie)  Marshall (Burnley LAN/Stockport CHS) Burcham, Chamberlain, Crisp, Cone, Hewitt, Everard, Williamson, Jermy, Wade (NFK/SFK) Bell (CUL) Baglee & var. (DUR)

Offline Old Bristolian

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 19 December 17 22:31 GMT (UK) »
It looks more like an "l" in the second extract. Could you compare it to other initial l's in the document?
Bumstead - London, Suffolk
Plant, Woolnough, Wase, Suffolk
Flexney, Godfrey, Burson, Hobby -  Oxfordshire
Street, Mitchell - Gloucestershire
Horwood, Heale Drew - Bristol
Gibbs, Gait, Noyes, Peters, Padfield, Board, York, Rogers, Horler, Heale, Emery, Clavey, Mogg, - Somerset
Fook, Snell - Devon
M(a)cDonald, Yuell, Gollan, McKenzie - Rosshire
McLennan, Mackintosh - Inverness
Williams, Jones - Angelsey & Caernarvon

Offline horselydown86

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 20 December 17 04:14 GMT (UK) »
I'm certain it is Lo(rdshi)pp/lo(rdshi)pp, as Bookbox and Ray have said.

Although the section of this document may well be about a particular copyhold or leasehold landholding, the reference to fee simple above tells us that the name following is that of the manor of which the particular copyhold or leasehold is a part.

It is usual in referring to landholdings at this time to trace the possession back to the fee simple, presumably because the only possession title superior to the fee simple is that of the monarch.

I have attached a snip from the PCC will of Francis Fitton (1608), which also refers to Bosley as a Lordship.

EDITED:  for accuracy.

Offline goldie61

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Re: Three words 1611
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 20 December 17 08:13 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks everyone for your input.  :)
It looks like Lordship it is then. Thanks HD for finding that.
Is it a will you have, or have just managed to find, perhaps on Ancestry?
I shall have to take a look at it. I see it goes on to mention Sutton, Winckle, and what looks like the start of 'Maxfield' - the old name for Macclesfield. All places of my ancient ancestors. Very interesting.

Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs