Author Topic: Thomas Simmonds Cook  (Read 898 times)

Offline PtE

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Thomas Simmonds Cook
« on: Thursday 21 December 17 18:29 GMT (UK) »
Hello to all the Sussex sleuths,
My family are generally from Kent, but I have an anomaly which I have not been able to solve.
One member of my ancestral family, Mary Hope, married Thomas Simmonds Cook at Boughton Monchelsea, Kent 18/7/1846.
The 1851 census has both Mary and Thomas listed as Cook, and they are living in Marden with two children. Neither of the children seem to be theirs but I may be wrong about the little girl.
Thomas is shown as being born in Lindfield, Sussex around 1815, and the marriage entry says that his father was Thomas Cook.
The strange thing is that after his death, his widow was calling herself Mary Simmonds, and I have only found death references for Thomas Simmonds in the relevant area of Kent, not Thomas Cook.
So, there are one or two possibilities that I can think of.
1) Thomas' mother was previously married to a Mr. Simmonds, he died, and she re-married Thomas Cook.
2) Thomas' mother was un-married when she gave birth to him and included the surname of his father as a middle name, which means she could have been a Cook.
3) Thomas' mother's maiden name was Simmonds,he was christened as Simmonds, and when she married Thomas Cook, his surname was added on the end.
4) The fathers name, Thomas Cook, was a fabrication, because the mother remained un-married, but wished to retain a bit of dignity.

Trouble is, I have been unable to find any details to prove or disprove these theories and am at a standstill. If anyone has any suggestions I would be most grateful to hear them.

Thank you for reading
PtE
Bellingham Kent
Hope Kent
Love Kent
Simmons Kent
Bridgland Kent
Beslee Kent
Patterson Kent
Knott Kent

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Online avm228

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 21 December 17 18:43 GMT (UK) »
Have you found Thomas under either name in 1841?

Who witnessed the 1846 marriage?  Was it the first marriage for both bride and groom?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 21 December 17 18:47 GMT (UK) »
For those helping - the two children listed with the couple in 1851 are Selah H Cook, 9, daughter, born Boughton, and Thomas H Cook, 3mo, son, born Marden.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 21 December 17 18:51 GMT (UK) »
Possible birth reg for "Selah" before the Cook-Hope marriage?

Celia Hope, Sep qtr 1841 Maidstone 5 271.

In 1861 she is Selah Simmonds, 19 b Boughton Monchelsea, in service in Loose.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 21 December 17 18:54 GMT (UK) »
Birth reg for the son:

Thomas Simmonds Cook, mother's maiden name Hope, Jun qtr 1850 Maidstone 5 370.

I'm not sure why you thought neither child was theirs?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline PtE

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 21 December 17 20:25 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the replies avm228,
The daughter does seem to be Mary's child before she married Thomas Simmonds Cook, she also had an earlier daughter, Jemima, who didn't survive childhood. As for the little boy, the fact that he was born in Marden rather threw me off track and the fact that he was listed as Mary's grandson in a later census record. I actually found a Thomas Simmons born in Marden to an un-married mother in 1851, so put two and two together and made five!
As to finding Thomas Simmonds Cook in 1841, there are several Thomas Cooks around Sussex and,not being familiar with the county, I was really unsure if any of the locations were feasible. The other thing is, as already mentioned, why would the name of Cook be dropped by the widow? It doesn't make sense.
I have found several christenings for Thomas Cook in Sussex, but, again, I don't know if the locations would be right for someone born in Lindfield.
Mary's great uncle, Thomas Hope, was also living in Boughton Monchelsea in the 1840's and his wife was a Simmons, though her family were the Day's from Marden, so things do get a bit tangled at times.
There were many families around the Weald of Kent by the name of Simmonds, Simmons, Simons, and Symonds and sorting them out can be a nightmare, but I haven't as yet come across any who came over the county line from Sussex apart from this Thomas Simmonds Cook, so whether his family was connected to the Kent ones or not is something I would like to find out if possible.
Anyway, thanks for your help with the children, I will get the birth certificates.
Bellingham Kent
Hope Kent
Love Kent
Simmons Kent
Bridgland Kent
Beslee Kent
Patterson Kent
Knott Kent

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 21 December 17 20:37 GMT (UK) »
The 1861 is a bit muddled, but since the head of household is David Hope, Thomas Simmonds seems to be enumerated as his grandson rather than Mary's (all relationships being to the head).

Mary Simmonds Dau Wid 49
David Hope Head Wid 86
Thomas Simmonds Grandson 10
Emma Hope Granddaur 14

RG9/499/3/2.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 21 December 17 20:44 GMT (UK) »
The daughter married as Selah Hope to Robert Baker, Maidstone, Sep qtr 1865.

They csn be found together in Hadlow in 1871 - she's Celia Baker, 28 b Boughton.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Thomas Simmonds Cook
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 21 December 17 20:49 GMT (UK) »
Possibility for Thomas in 1841 is Thomas Cook, 27, R.R. Lab, in Edenbridge.  Not born in county (Kent).

The occupation (railroad labourer?) is consistent with his 1851 occupation (railway platelayer).
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)