Author Topic: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar  (Read 383 times)

Offline Fordyce

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Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« on: Friday 22 December 17 09:59 GMT (UK) »
The 1851 census shows Eliza Cook, widowed, age 29, a servant, b Dunbar Haddington, a pauper in Sheffield Union Workhouse, Moorfields, Sheffield, with her son William Cook age 2m b Sheffield. Dunbar in now in East Lothian, Scotland.

William Cook was born 22 Jan 1851 at 1 Court Spring Street Sheffield, mother Eliza Cook, no father recorded. Which suggests the child was illegitimate, father unknown. I cannot find any Cooks in Dunbar, which suggests the contrary.

If she were married, she might have been Elizabeth Ogilvie bpt 24 Apr 1821 to John Ogilvie & Elizabeth Niel or Elizabeth Cribbes bpt 28 Jul 1822 to George Cribbes & Jean Purves. 

I see a John Cook & Eliza Briggs married 4q1850 Sheffield. Could possibly 'Briggs' be a mistake for 'Cribbes'?

Cannot find anything else about this mother and son.

My gtgdmother Hannah Preston is recorded as being born in 1853 in Glasgow to the above Elizabeth Ogilvie, her fourth child. To cut a long story short, this birth record implies there were two children born sometime between 1844 and 1851 of which there is absolutely no record. Having found this 1851 census record, I'm looking at the possibility my Elizabeth Ogilvie abandoned her family, had two children (one of whom was this William Cook), then when destitute and in the poorhouse returned to her erstwhile husband, to have this fourth child (born after he married someone else!). If that's far-fetched, the alternatives are just as bad if not worse.

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Offline BumbleB

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #1 on: Friday 22 December 17 10:17 GMT (UK) »
12 November 1850 - Sheffield - John Cook married Harriet Walton   :'(

Eliza Briggs married Edward Clayton.

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

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Offline Fordyce

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #2 on: Friday 22 December 17 10:38 GMT (UK) »
Ooh! My mistake. Thanks for clearing that up.

One less variable to fret over!

Offline rosie99

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #3 on: Friday 22 December 17 10:42 GMT (UK) »
If Eliza was married when William was born the birth certificate should record her maiden name as well as her married name.  It looks as though it is an illegitimate birth and the census is wrong showing her as a widow.
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Offline philipsearching

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #4 on: Friday 22 December 17 13:33 GMT (UK) »
As far as I understand it, the mystery lies in the question: who and where was Elizabeth Ogilvie before 1853?

Could you clarify:
Have you found Hannah's family on the 1861 census?
Have you found a marriage for Hannah's parents - when and where?
Have you found Hannah's father on the 1851 census?  Was any family with him?

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Online trish1120

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #5 on: Friday 22 December 17 13:55 GMT (UK) »
Something strange here I agree;

Posting for others who may be able to help;

Marriage;
31 Jul 1842, Haddington Parish Church, Haddington, East Lothian
James Sibbald PRESTON to Elizabeth OLGILVIE
James Occp Smith
Witnesses, Alexander Paterson and John Ogilvie
(FreeREG)

1861 Census
Glasgow, Lanarkshire
James Preston, 41, Head, Mar, Engine Fitter, born Hoddington, Haddingtonshire
Marion Preston, 34, Wife, Mar
Grace Preston, 17, Daug, born Haddington, Haddingtonshire
HANNA Preston, 7, Daug, born Glasgow, Lanarkshire********
Elizabeth Preston, 3, Daug
Jemima M Preston, 1, Daug
Thomas Preston, 33, Brother
Agnes Preston, 29
Elizabeth Preston, 3
Marion Preston, 11mths

GRACE was Bapt same Church as Marriage 14 Mar 1843 (birth 22 Jan 1843)
Parents; James PRESTON and Elizabeth OGILVIE
Fathers Occp Blacksmith
(FreeREG)

HANNAH was born  30 Sep 1853, Barony, Lanark, Scotland
Parents James Sibbald PRESTON and Elizabeth OGILVIE

1851 Census
7 Drury St, Barony, Lanarkshire
James Prestond, 32, Head, Mar, Engineer, born Haddington
Helen Preston, 30, Wife, Mar, born Stirling****
Grace Preston, 8, Daug, born Haddington

JEMIMA Margarets 1859 birth has James as Father and Marion McQUARRIE as Mother.
ELIZABETH 1857 same details.

Cant find anymore children to James/Elizabeth 1843-1852 as Fordyce said.


Fordyce just a couple of questions.
Have you checked Scotlandspeople for a Death for Elizabeth c 1853-1857?
Or she may be under Helen as per 1841 Census.
Or possible births on there for other children (and deaths)

Open to anyone who can help! 

Trish :)


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Online trish1120

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #6 on: Friday 22 December 17 14:16 GMT (UK) »
James in 1841

Church St, Haddington
John Treston, 70, Slater, born England
Marion Preston, 60
James Treston, 20, Blacksmith
Thomas Treston, 15, Blacksmith Apprentice

JSP's Baptism is on FreeREG 04 Aug 1817 to THOMAS/MAY
Father a Slater
+ John 1820/Marion 1822
Mother is Marion WATSON on John/Marions
 
Nothing for Thomas

Logically this line would go back to John PRESTON/Agnes SIBBALD who married 29 Nov 1732 Stenton.

Doesnt help with original query though ::)

EDIT;
THOMAS SCOTT Preston
Birth Date: 25 Aug 1825
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1825
To John and Marion nee Watson


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Offline Fordyce

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #7 on: Friday 22 December 17 15:04 GMT (UK) »
If Eliza was married when William was born the birth certificate should record her maiden name as well as her married name.  It looks as though it is an illegitimate birth and the census is wrong showing her as a widow.
Yes, that's a natural conclusion. I pointed that out; and that's why I have asked on the East Lothian Board about any Cooks born in Dunbar.

The parentage of Hannah Preston is not simple: any one piece of evidence about Hannah Preston's parentage is directly contradicted by some other piece of evidence. My objective on this Board is to discover the identity of the pauper Eliza Cook in Sheffield. I've posted on East Lothian questions regarding the wider issue of Hannah Preston's parentage.

But since you ask....

Have you found a marriage for Hannah's parents - when and where?
Yes. James Sibbald Preston & Elizabeth Ogilvie married Aug 1842 Haddington.
Their first child Grace Preston was born in 1843 in Haddington. Her life is well documented, mostly in Glasgow.

Have you found Hannah's father on the 1851 census?  Was any family with him?
Yes. One child and only one child, being Grace, was with him. But the census also shows him married to a mysterious wife named Helen born Stirlingshire about whom absolutely nothing can be found. She cannot be regarded as a mistake for Elizabeth: wrong name, wrong age, wrong birthplace.

Have you found Hannah's family on the 1861 census?
Yes. In Glasgow. James Sibbald Preston married Marion McQuarrie Apr 1853, and when they had a dau Marion Preston in Aug 1855, the birth registration states that she was Marion McQuarrie's first child. Hannah Preston was born in Sep 1853 - recorded as Elizabeth Ogilvie's 4th lawful child. Not only was she born at the marital home of James Sibbald Preston & Marion McQuarrie, which is odd enough, but I've been unable to find any record of any two previous children. James Sibbald Preston's two brothers were witnesses, and they knew full well the name and situation of James Sibbald Preston's new wife.

Hannah Preston was clearly brought by her presumed father and presumed stepmother as though their daughter, so it isn't surprising her mother is recorded as Marion McQuarrie when she married and died. But then there's those 1853 and 1855 birth records....which cannot be ignored.

Have you checked Scotlandspeople for a Death for Elizabeth c 1853-1857?
Or she may be under Helen as per 1841 Census.
Or possible births on there for other children (and deaths)
I've done exhaustive , and I mean exhaustiing, research, certainly in Scotland. All original documents - not transriptions etc. James Sibbald Preston was a blacksmith who became an engineer/fitter working in the railway industry in Glasgow. He could have spent the 1840s elsewhere - who knows, even Sheffield. By 1851 he was in Glasgow. He might have worked for Stark & Fulton, a short-lived and little known engineering company. In 1851 Marion McQuarrie was a housemaid for one of the partners Alexander Fulton, so it has crossed my mind that the boss had his way with the housemaid. But then James Sibbald Preston could have done ditto on a visit to his boss. Take nine months from 30 Sep 1853 and you get 31 Dec 1852. A winter wonderland bit of scandal but it still flies in the face of known evidence.

Hence my focus on so-called widow Eliza Cook.

Offline Fordyce

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Re: Eliza Cook pauper born Dunbar
« Reply #8 on: Friday 22 December 17 15:33 GMT (UK) »

JSP's Baptism is on FreeREG 04 Aug 1817 to THOMAS/MAY
Father a Slater
+ John 1820/Marion 1822
Mother is Marion WATSON on John/Marions
 
Logically this line would go back to John PRESTON/Agnes SIBBALD who married 29 Nov 1732 Stenton.

Just to clarify, despite the 1841 census, John Preston is recorded as being born in Aberlady, East Lothian, upon his Discharge Papers in 1814. And the 1841 census record itself had "N" (not born in county) struck out and replaced by "E".

So, depending upon which piece of evidence you choose, he was born in England, or in Aberlady (which is within East Lothian), or in Scotland (outwith East Lothian).

The route back may be logical but I've yet to find any evidence. Another possibility is that his surname was in fact Paiston. A Captain Paiston & Agnes Sibbald are buried in Haddington (undated).

Sadly, John Preston was found in his cellar one morning in 1845 having committed suicide due to some unexplained "family discomfort". He was 80.