Royal Horse Artillery Soldier

[Littletoot]

Hello,
My ancestor James Allen was in the Royal Horse Artillery 1825 - 1846.  I found him and his family on the 1851 census living in Willesborough Kent.  Can anyone tell me if serving Soldiers and their families would have been counted on the 1841 census ?  I've done a check on James wife's name (Elizabeth) and some of the kids but can't find them on the 1841 census.
Thanks Have a really nice Christmas, my family and I spent it around the pool eating ham and prawns - however I would prefer some snow seeing as the air con has just failed!!!  You can tell Im from Aus
Many thanks
Janette

[stanmapstone]

Soldiers in barracks in England and Wales were always enumerated in the same manner as the inmates of other institutions. Small barracks were treated as private households to be enumerated by the ordinary enumerator. Soldiers and their families, not in England and Wales, were not enumerated until 1911.

Stan

[Littletoot]

Thanks Stan for your quick reply,
I must dig  alittle deeper and see if I can find them on the 1841 census. His 2nd youngest was born in Sheffield in 1838 and the youngest born in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1842.
I'll have another look.
Thanks for your help
Janette

[Bruiser]

G'day Janette,

This looks like the family in 1841 at St John Northumberland indexed as Berwick Square but probably is meant to be Barrack Square and is available on both FamilySearch and Ancestry

James Allan  35 occupation Ar (struck through) Not born in County
Elizbth         30                                               Ireland
Thos            13                                               Ireland
Susanah        9                                               Ireland
John              6                                               Not born in County
Jane              4                                               Not born in County
Elizbeth         6mths                                        Born in County

Daughter Elizabeth bpt. 30 May 1841 no dob given at St. Andrew Newcastle upon Tyne abode Barracks occupation gunner. The image is available on FamilySearch in the England, Durham Diocese Bishop's Transcripts for Northumberland, Newcastle upon Tyne, St Andrew, 1838-1857, image no. 102.

Bruce.

[stanmapstone]

You can see Barrack Square and the Cavalry and Infantry Barracks on the map at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/423786/564945/12/101338
Change the zoom level.
Or this map http://maps.nls.uk/view/101099345#zoom=4&lat=4932&lon=5176&layers=BT
Stan

[Littletoot]

HI Bruiser and Stan
Thank you so much, this is definitely my Allen family.  I looked on Ancestry but I kept putting in James as being born in Leceistershire which he was and I wasn't seeing anything that matched.
Just out of curiosity what search parameters did you use ?
Thanks
Janette

[Bruiser]

G'day Janette,

I had a look at the 1851 census and then searched for a bpt. for Elizabeth in Newcastle 1839-1843 on FamilySearch. After looking at the image in the BT's and finding his occupation was a gunner I thought that this was very likely the right family.

As Elizabeth was bpt. on 30 May 1841 and the census was taken on the 06 June it seemed very likely that she would be found in Newcastle, in Barracks close to St. Andrew's and Born in the County so I searched for her rather than James. It was easy to find her as Allan on FamilySearch which I prefer for name variants.

You can see on the maps Stan posted links for that the Artillery Barracks are just a little NW of St. Andrew's Church in Gallowgate. There is also an image online of Barracks Square with description taken ca. 1894 posted by Newcastle Libraries. Just search for Barracks Square, Newcastle.

Bruce.

[Littletoot]

Hi Bruce
Thanks for the information on James Allen and his family.  I'm wondering if I may be able to ask another question regarding James Allen.  He enlisted in Royal Horse Artillery 1/1/1825 and discharged on medical grounds 13/1/1846.  On the papers that were sent to me from the National Archives there is one line that he married 30 September 1826. From census records etc his wife was born in Ireland as were his two eldest children Thomas 1827 and Susannah 1830.  So I guess his regiment were stationed in Ireland? It would be nice to read about where and why they were there.  However my question is being a soldier when he married how could I follow that up to find a marriage between James and Elizabeth. Would that be documented in regimental papers? would they have to get permission to marry? I think her surname was McGrath, I have a document here when they came to Australia and it said Megra, however I think that may be a tranposing error.
Any information that you can point me to would be so much appreciated.
Best regards
Janette - still hot here downunder!!!!

[Littletoot]

Sorry Bruiser, I thought you were located in UK - silly me