Author Topic: Brickwall - Help needed please  (Read 1091 times)

Offline Ann Baker

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Brickwall - Help needed please
« on: Wednesday 27 December 17 17:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi All

I've been trying for 14 years to find out more about my gtx4 grandparents Patrick Carroll and Bridget McGurk in particular where in Ireland they came from. I know their first child was born in 1838 and their last (James who is my gt x3) was born about 1847. Their marriage and the children's births were all somewhere in Ireland.

I know they came to Rutherglen sometime bewteen 1847 and possibly 1854. Possibly because Bridget re-married (shown as a widow) a James Malone in 1854 in Rutherglen.

I have all the available records from Scotland's People for them but getting them any further back is proving nigh impossible. I've checked all the main Irish sites as well as the Irish records on A*cestry and FindMyPast. Having checked with the Mitchell library today there are no surviving poor applications for Rutherglen and the church where their major events took place are waiting on their records being sent back from the Catholic Archives in Edinburgh (St Columbkilles in Rutherglen).

Does anyone have any connection to this family and/or any suggestions where else I could look to try and find out more?

I don't know if Patrick had any siblings in the area as no death cert him having died pre registration. I do know that Bridget had a sister Mary who married a Patrick Greenan (also in Rutherglen)

Thanks in advance

Ann
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-

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Offline AMBLY

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 28 December 17 01:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I sympathise with the brickwalls  generated by deep-in-Ireland ancestral roots! :D

Just to clarify :

Have you all the possible Census for all the Irish born issue of Patrick and Bridget, and for her post 1854 marriage - and not one of them mentions a birthplace other than 'Ireland'?

Did Bridget die after 1854 in Scotland - no mention of her parents names on a death certificate?

Bridget's sister Mary  - do you mean she married in Rutherglen? If so, when and where? And do you have all possible Census for her (for birthplace clues ) and did she died 1855 or later (for parents names)?

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

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Offline Ann Baker

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 28 December 17 02:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ambly

Census - yes I do and just says Ireland :(

Her death cert - Dad is James McGurk and mum Rose Ann McIntee

Yes Mary died  in Rutherglen (1878) and her death cert confirms same parents. Can't find a Scottish marriage for her so am assuming Ireland. Same issue with census


Thanks

Ann
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 28 December 17 02:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi Ann,

There is this marriage of interest:
Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers
Aughnamullen West, Monaghan, Ireland
Parish Variants:Latton
Diocese:Clogher
25 Nov 1849
Patrius GREENAN
Maria McGUIRK

I see your Patrick (25) and Mary (21) GREENAN both b Ireland, are in Rutherglen in 1851, with son James (1) born Rutherglen. So the timeline would fit.....

Cheers,
AMBLY

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 28 December 17 02:33 GMT (UK) »
Hmmm,

There is a marriage in Clogher  Maghaire Rois  on 30 Jan 1839
Maghaire Rois, Monaghan, Ireland
Parish Variants:  Carickmacross, Carrickmacross
Diocese: Clogher
Patrius CARROL and Brigittam McG?------
The two witness' were Petro CARROL and Patrius CARROL

Unfortunately, her surname falls of the page.....

Cheers
AMBLY

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline Rosinish

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 28 December 17 02:46 GMT (UK) »
Good finds Ambly on the marriages!

I would also add it may be worth checking variants of the name 'McIntee' e.g. McGinty as an Irish accent can have many forms as I have discovered.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Ann Baker

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 28 December 17 13:42 GMT (UK) »
Ambly

I would give you the biggest hug possible if you were here. The first marriage is definitely correct - you little star! And the second one am pretty sure is too!

You have made my day! Really funny they've ended up coming from Monaghan as my dad's paternal side also are. (These guys are his mum's maternal side).

I now can start looking properly and have something to pinpoint where which is the next parish along from my Connolly's. One of my Connolly's also was in Aughnamullen (saw it on Griffiths) and the odd thing was there was also a Patrick Carroll listed but not knowing then what I know now, it could even be him. Wow! Just wow!

Yipeeeeee! Totally excited!

Thank you so much  :D :D :D

Ann
Torrens, Thompson - Tyrone & Fermanagh,Connolly, Campbell - Monaghan & Cavan, McGovern, Carroll, Orr - Ireland
Connolly, Fulton, Stirling, Cameron, McKellar, Robertson, McGovern, Torrance, Bisland, Fraser, Hamilton, O'Hara, McAusland, McTaggart , Lambie, Twedale, Hart, Clark(Paisley/Barrhead/Glasgow)
McGovern, Liddell - Falkirk
Mair, Muir, Carroll, Stewart, Law, Orr - Lanarkshire
Torrance - Brisbane
Connolly , Robertson- NSW
McGovan(?), Robertson , Agnew-

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 30 December 17 07:13 GMT (UK) »
Awww  ;D ;D Glad to have been of help ! I know the steps to the  happy dance you do  ;D

Paying it forward with pleasure as someone did that for me too, years back, on one of my Irish lines and gave me and my aunt & fellow family searcher, the right nudge to a lot of information! 

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline grendlsmother

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Re: Brickwall - Help needed please
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 30 December 17 13:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi - off topic, but where did you find the records for Maghaire Rois, Monaghan, Ireland?  I have been searching for a birth and/or marriage here for several years but come up with nothing! 
Pre-1800 - does that make a difference?

G'mom

Ayrshire: McCormick (mack); McFadzean; Kerr; Brown; Paton; McGregor; McDonald; Moffat; Connel; Bone
Dumfries/Lanarks: (pre-1840) McDonald; Moffat; Bone; Hamilton; Hyslop; Sandiland; Bredwood; Kerr; Brown
Ireland (pre-1820) McCormick (Monaghan)