Author Topic: Mary Ann Palmer  (Read 2026 times)

Offline Elliebean54

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Mary Ann Palmer
« on: Tuesday 02 January 18 20:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi everyone I'm new here and had a couple of questions related to my family history, and this seemed the right pace to put them.

Firstly, DNA testing:
I know general testing is not a very reliable source, but my mother has been researching her family on and off for many years and wanted to have her DNA tested out of interest and to see if it could clarify anything. It has instead thrown up a real mystery. She has a huge amount of scandanavian DNA - in fact a significant majority - with no known origin (beyond known east coast British suggesting trace Norse remnant). Matches all lead back to one place - a family in central Sweden which includes a close (1st cousin once removed/second cousin) relative. Also multiple other matches with Swedish ancestors.
I assume others have come across this sort of thing? It's not just small margins that can be disregarded, it suggests she should have a Swedish parent, or at least more than one grandparent with mixed scandinavian ancestors, yet there's no family history or stories to back this up.
Of course I'm thinking someone's been economical with the truth re parentage, but she has the birth certificates of all her close relatives (except one grandmother - more later)
Was lying on birth certificates common practice? She was a war baby, her parents born at the turn of the century.
That aside, anyone know how to go about researching family history in Sweden?!

On an unrelated question, the grandmother I mentioned. This has driven my mother mad over many years of research, but her maternal grandmother simply appeared on a marriage certificate, gave birth to several children, and disappeared (supposedly died).
She's never been able to find a birth or death certificate for her, or anything on her background, no family stories, just a name and age at marriage.
How common is this? Is there anything anyone could suggest we could do who has encountered a stubborn mystery like this before? My mother's not getting any younger and it preys on her mind that she knows nothing about the origin of this lady, with the only clues a very common name and surname, and her DNA.

Thank you for your time

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Offline groom

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 20:52 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

Quote
She's never been able to find a birth or death certificate for her, or anything on her background, no family stories, just a name and age at marriage.

Have you got the actual marriage certificate - what information does it give on there, eg status on marriage, age and name and occupation of father?
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Offline Elliebean54

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 21:15 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat

Quote
She's never been able to find a birth or death certificate for her, or anything on her background, no family stories, just a name and age at marriage.

Have you got the actual marriage certificate - what information does it give on there, eg status on marriage, age and name and occupation of father?

Thank you for your reply.

I just double checked - all the marriage certificate had was her father's name and he was listed as deceased, no occupation. My mother said she suspects from a likely census entry she was in service before her marriage so there's no real idea where her original home was.

Offline groom

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 21:23 GMT (UK) »
If you want to give us her name and age and father's name someone may be able to help.
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Offline [Ray]

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 21:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Her marriage details = addresses, witnesses, full date, ref, husband?

If her children are no longer with us then why not tell all detail from their births?

Confirm that your mother's birth details are as expected? PM to Groom or another rootschatter to confirm them ( do not publish publicly )

Rough details of her birth/death.
Her day/month of her birthday does help.

Did she speak with an accent?

Ray

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pps    AND HAPPY NEW YEAR !
ppps  :)
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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 21:56 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat Ellie.

I think there might be some members able to help you with Scandanavian research (sadly I can't remember which specific members so I can contact them).

Your best bet would be to start a new thread possibly on the "Other countries/Europe" board, mentioning Scandanavia in the subject heading, and hopefully this will attract the attention of someone able to help you. Supply as many details, facts and figures as you can.

Regarding mystery grandmother, my first thought is that she may have run off with another man and left her family. The lack of information and telling family that "she died" may have been concocted to cover up a scandal. As others have suggested, if you give us as many details as you can we may be able to uncover something for you. (of course, she may really have died, which is another good reason that no one passed any information about her on to family  :) )

Offline Elliebean54

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 22:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi

Her marriage details = addresses, witnesses, full date, ref, husband?

If her children are no longer with us then why not tell all detail from their births?

Confirm that your mother's birth details are as expected? PM to Groom or another rootschatter to confirm them ( do not publish publicly )

Rough details of her birth/death.
Her day/month of her birthday does help.

Did she speak with an accent?

Ray

Not really sure at first how much detail we're supposed to give - all her children are long deceased if we're still on the grandmother.

Her name was Mary Ann Palmer, and was 23 in 1889 when she married but we don't even know her exact year of birth. Her father was Peter Palmer and deceased by this time, no age or occupation. No mother's name, but she was supposed to have had a sister, and this suggestion she was in service prior to marriage. The only other story about her origins was they were possibly Irish immigrants. My mother's DNA suggests she is around a quarter Irish which could confirm this, but her remaining DNA (that wasn't swedish) was Spanish of all things. Again, no history on that, but certainly a family line in jet black hair, black eyes and dark skin seems to confirm this.

Mary Ann had 4 surviving children in the 1890s. By the 1901 census there's no trace of her, the family history being she had died, but there's no death certificate anywhere - my mother has searched everywhere she can think of for one over many years, just like the absent birth certificate. My grandmother (her daughter) was 4 in 1901 and certainly had no memory of her mother.

All birth certificates are apparently in order, but one lingering question in my mind has always been that these were desperately poor people who only paid for a marriage licence when they had to. Every direct ancestor from my grandparents back gave birth to their first child less than 9 months after marriage, which gives plenty of scope for paternity questions within the family.

Offline Elliebean54

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 22:27 GMT (UK) »


Regarding mystery grandmother, my first thought is that she may have run off with another man and left her family. The lack of information and telling family that "she died" may have been concocted to cover up a scandal. As others have suggested, if you give us as many details as you can we may be able to uncover something for you. (of course, she may really have died, which is another good reason that no one passed any information about her on to family  :) )

Thank you for your welcome and suggestions re scandanavia.

And - yes, I always suspected she left and they covered up. This was victorian England and it wouldn't be the first time a family was told someone had died to cover up the shame of scandal, especially when a woman leaves. In which case, I have speculated - did she change her name? It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack, only DNA could help with that, only then if she had other children.

Offline rosie99

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Re: Mary Ann Palmer
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 02 January 18 22:28 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat

Who did Mary Ann Palmer marry and where.

Where does she give as her place of birth on census and where was she living after she married.

Rosie
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