Author Topic: maria farr  (Read 727 times)

Offline waitnvrmind29

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maria farr
« on: Saturday 06 January 18 00:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi! I'm looking for a great aunt whose name was Maria Farr born 1905 Glasgow,
I haven't really been able to find much about her.
Her married name was Fitzsimmons and I found her as a 'Farr' on the 1911 census.
On her marriage certificate however, she has different parents than those on the census (with different last names).
Wondering if anyone can help me in figuring out why? I've tried to look but have come up blank.

Thanks :)

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Offline Wendy2305

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 06 January 18 02:11 GMT (UK) »
Can you give us the names of both sets of parents
I did have a look for her but no Maria Farr  birth registered
Do you have her death cert as if she died in Scotland that should have parents names on as well

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Offline waitnvrmind29

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 06 January 18 03:06 GMT (UK) »
Her Parents that I had were John Farr and Catherine Spence - as shown on the 1911 census.
The ones which I found on the marriage certificate were Catherine Paul and William Lawlor.
Found the Death certificate from 1948, same parents as those that were on the marriage certificate.

Offline Wendy2305

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 06 January 18 12:56 GMT (UK) »
I've had a quick look and Catherine Paul was born 1884 as Catherine Spence Paul she married William Lawlor in 1909 Could Maria be the illegitmate daughter of this couple but was raised as Catherine and Johns child
Have just found the Catholic Baptism of Maria Paul mother Catherine Paul no father named on born 11 Mar 1905 baptised 26 Apr 1905 at Greenock

Offline Annette7

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 06 January 18 13:42 GMT (UK) »
You don't state all the facts from the marriage certificate - it states Maria Farr, formerly Paul, dau. of Catherine Paul subsequently married to William Lawlor (checked and the latter took place in 1909).

The census showing Maria with John Farr and Catherine also shows she was born in Gourock, Renfrewshire.

Have found her birth entry:

Maria Gracie (?hard to read second name) Paul, born 11th March 1905 Greenock Poorhouse, Gourock, dau. of Catherine Paul, millworker - her mother registered the birth and signed as Kate Paul.   I should also add that the birth has been indexed as Marie Gracie Paul but name is clearly Maria on the birth certificate.

I would suggest that Maria was informally 'adopted' by John Farr and his wife Catherine (I note on census it states she'd had 15 children with only 1 living??). If Maria believed John Farr was her natural father I'm sure she would have named him as such when she married.   Clearly she was raised as 'Farr' by John and Catherine Farr but always knew who her real mother was.  Adoptions weren't legally recorded until the 1920's so there won't a record of an informal adoption.

Can I ask when you ask for help as in this instance that you give us all the facts stated on certificates - i.e. married as Maria Farr, formerly Paul, mother Catherine Paul subsequently married to William Lawlor (does not state the latter was her father), and that Maria was born in Gourock, Renfrewshire.   I had to look at these documents myself to find out this information.

So, Maria was born as Paul on 11/3/1905 and although her mother Catherine eventually married in 1909 Maria was raised by a John Farr and his wife and she was raised as a Farr but I do not believe that John Farr was her actual father, just an 'adopted' one.   One find it difficult to see John and his wife had had 15 children with only 1 living and without checking back further to see if this was the case I'm wondering if Maria, shown as their daughter on the census, is being counted as the '1 living'!

Annette   


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Offline Forfarian

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 06 January 18 13:54 GMT (UK) »
How old was Catherine Spence Paul when she married in 1909? Could she have been the daughter of Catherine Spence, wife of John Farr? If Catherine Spence or Farr is listed on the 1911 census as married for 15 years, there wasn't time for her to have 15 children to John Farr, so maybe the still living one was Catherine Spence Paul or Lawlor, and Maria was in the census with her grandmother and (step)-grandfather?

wildy, we already know that you didn't tell us everything that was on Maria's marriage certificate, and that the detail you omitted was critical in solving your mystery. Did you look at the original of the 1911 census, and did you look at the marriage of John Farr and Catherine Spence? What else do they tell you?
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Wendy2305

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 06 January 18 14:02 GMT (UK) »
How old was Catherine Spence Paul when she married in 1909? Could she have been the daughter of Catherine Spence, wife of John Farr? If Catherine Spence or Farr is listed on the 1911 census as married for 15 years, there wasn't time for her to have 15 children to John Farr, so maybe the still living one was Catherine Spence Paul or Lawlor, and Maria was in the census with her grandmother and (step)-grandfather?

wildy, we already know that you didn't tell us everything that was on Maria's marriage certificate, and that the detail you omitted was critical in solving your mystery. Did you look at the original of the 1911 census, and did you look at the marriage of John Farr and Catherine Spence? What else do they tell you?

Catherine Spence Paul was born 1884 so she was 24/25 when married

Offline Forfarian

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 06 January 18 14:03 GMT (UK) »
Yes, Wendy2305 told us that.

Wildy, have you seen the birth certificate of Catherine Spence Paul? Who were her parents?

What does the marriage certificate of Catherine Spence and John Farr tell you?

(Original post modified to make it clear that the questions are directed at Wildy not at Wendy2305)
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Wendy2305

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Re: maria farr
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 06 January 18 14:07 GMT (UK) »
Have you seen the birth certificate of Catherine Spence Paul? Who were her parents?

What does the marriage certificate of Catherine Spence and John Farr tell you?

No just used the free index her death was registerd as Catherine Spence Lawlor other name Paul using the age at death and her full name searched for a birth