Author Topic: Finding Emily's Story  (Read 1018 times)

Offline 85jbk

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #27 on: Monday 08 January 18 05:07 GMT (UK) »
majm
that registration was the QLd one not the NSW one and yes the relationship is stated as Thomas Hawkes, Father

The Children's births were registered in 1913

Many thanks for your post, I really am at a lost as to where to go next to prove these connections, is there further I can do?
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

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Offline majm

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #28 on: Monday 08 January 18 05:24 GMT (UK) »
NSW ER 1902 THE DARLING
Polling in Nyngan
Lewis Evan HICKEY, of Nyngan, medical practitioner.
Catherine LAWLOR, of Nyngan, domestic duties
Philip Edmond LAWLOR, of Nyngan, butcher.

So for her firstborn delivery she sought a doctor to attend her and not just an accoucheur.  Could he have been assisted by Catherine LAWLOR ( with an O)    Philip Edmund Lawlor’s NSW birth registered 1879, Dubbo, with parents as Catherine and John.   They were likely married at Wellington … nee  CAFFREY … umm…. and perhaps Catherine knew of Emily and her parents back then?

Speculation of course … and banned from family history….

Don't do anything until I have contacted my NSW BDM retired rellie and spoken with him and reported back here.   :)

JM

 
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Offline 85jbk

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #29 on: Monday 08 January 18 06:06 GMT (UK) »
1902, A Doctor in a Hospital or the house, curious... again speculation and like you say banned in family history! but so much goes on.

Rechecked the birth certificate and the spelling for Lawler is just that on the certificate but as we know variations on each ones interpretation of the spellings. So Yes could very well be as you suggest, Lawlor.

I await your contact
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline majm

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #30 on: Monday 08 January 18 06:22 GMT (UK) »
In the mean time,  I share (no names of course)...

right era and Western Div of NSW...  my Great Grandfather and Great Grandmother and their children .... born Tilpa, Louth, Bourke etc from mid 1870s until death of Great Gran while still nursing her youngest (Dr Sides did all he could).    Great Grandad was a Drover's Captain and his bachelor brother was a Shearer.  The Droving Plant moved from 'there' as far as Charters Towers and beyond, to the North; as far as Abercrombie to the east; to Vic border in the south-west and to Adelaide too....    Some trips were 14 months in duration.   We 'know' when Great Grandfather was home from counting back from dates of birth for the children.... And better still, although Great Grandfather was illiterate, Great Gran was excellent at bookkeeping, diary writing and general correspondence.    My NSW BDM contact is a rellie, (and descendant of same western div family) and a former senior officer (retired now).  Better still, despite a lifelong career at BDM he continues to enjoys family history still. 

Fingers crossed there will be a penny dropping and a crack appearing soon.

JM
DO NOT COPY PASTE ANY OF MY POSTS TO ANY OTHER FORUM. I DO NOT GIVE PERMISSION FOR ANY OF MY POSTS TO BE SHARED WITH OTHER FORUMS.
 Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.    
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk         
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes

Offline 85jbk

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #31 on: Monday 08 January 18 07:00 GMT (UK) »
thank you for sharing and didn't they live extreme lives back then, I too would assume Thomas spent much time away being a contractor and working the stations, not that I have found too much on him either,

here's to that penny dropping and that crack opening
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline sparrett

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #32 on: Monday 08 January 18 07:50 GMT (UK) »


Polling at Nyngan  (JM notes that the polling place of Nyngan and the NSW BDM district of Nyngan should not be considered to be exacting same geographical territory as each other … BDM was part of the Registrar Generals Office – ie part of the Land Titles Office, and the Reg Gens and were all very active at closely protecting their own administrative areas of responsibility …. VERY !!!.)

Alfred DAVIS, Nyngan, jockey
George Thomas DAVIS, Block 387, labourer
Mary Ann DAVIS, Block 387, domestic duties
William Walter DAVIS, Jeffrey’s selection, labourer
William Watts DAVIS, Miandetta, labourer
NONE with surname HAWKES or variations
Harry POTTER, butcher, Nyngan
Francis Walter WRIGHT, Mudal, station hand
Walter WRIGHT, Nyngan, labourer


Noting Emily’s children’s births
1902 Thomas, registered Nyngan district
1904 Emily registered Cobar district
1907 James registered Cobar district

JM

A small offering.
Trying to draw any connection between the above noted Harry POTTER and the suggested mother of Emily, Mary Ann POTTER.

A snip-

HARRY POTTER, last heard of with Belcher and Co.,
Bourke, in 1892, supposed now to be at Dubbo or Nyngan, please write to Mother, Hartley, Whitney, Hampshire, England.
    
The Daily Telegraph (Sydney, NSW : 1883 - 1923)
Wed 15 Mar 1899

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline 85jbk

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #33 on: Monday 08 January 18 08:10 GMT (UK) »
A small offering..thank you..therefore ruling out a connection between the noted Harry Potter and Emily.
Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline 85jbk

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #34 on: Monday 08 January 18 08:22 GMT (UK) »
Looking further at both Wright listings,
Francis Walter Wright, Mudal, station hand
Walter Wright, Nyngan, Labourer
is there anything that connects these two Wright men to Emily?
 I do have Walter down as a brother to Emily, but again all jumping leads. I also have the death transcription for Walter Wright. Is he or isn't he the brother?
This again is the million dollar question

Wells-Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Carlyle -Eaglesfield,Dumfrieshire
Underwood - Ruthwell,Dumfrieshire
Grierson - Ruthwell,Dumfrishire
O'Halloran- Limerick
Bryan (O'Brien)Limerick
Hawks/Hawkes - Staffordshire, England
Badgery - Staffordshire, England
Davis-  Cork- Ireland
Neville - Ireland
O'Toole - Limerick

Offline majm

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Re: Finding Emily's Story
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 09 January 18 01:52 GMT (UK) »
Comments

Assume all events prior to 1913 marriage in Qld actually occurred in NSW and are registered with NSW BDM, but acknowledge we have not YET found Emily’s birth, so we are attempting to find her parentage without having her birth cert at hand.   We need to recognise that some current family history buffs promote themes that assume that children of mixed marriages were not registered.  NSW BDM’s registers have NOT ever had a column where a baby’s ethnicity was noted as part of the civil registration process.  It is quite possible that spelling variations OR failure of a rural district’s deputy reg. gen to forward a quarterly return, OR the failure of the Sydney based reg gen’s office to adequately read the long hand script on the quarterly return are MORE ACCURATE reasons for lack of any index sighting.  It was NOT until after WWI that pro forma forms became available for mums/dads to complete as part of the registration of a birth.  Before then, it was: Baby’s mum/dad to stand at tall/wide counter at admin section of a local court house (Clerk of Petty Sessions or Sheriff’s office part) and answer verbal questions while clerk wrote the answers in their local ledger.  Ledger faced the clerk, who after recording the verbal answers then turned the ledger to face the informant and said “Sign here”.   Unlikely that the clerks were instructed to say “Please carefully read my scribble entered in each column and then sign to confirm you have given me truthful information and I have recorded it truthfully”.   The quarterly returns were sent by post to Reg Gen’s office in Sydney, and included in with the various documents for Deeds, Land Titles etc .  Reg Gen’s office did NOT have a ‘follow up’ policy if NO quarterly return received for the BDM section.


In 1902, Emily tells us she is aged 33 years. (son Thomas’ birth cert)   1902 less 33 gives birth year of about 1869.   (25 June 1902)

In 1904, Emily tells us she is aged 36 years (daughter Emily’s birth cert)   1904 less 36 gives birth year of about 1868  (26 August 1904)

In 1907, Emily tells us she is aged 38 years (son James’ birth cert)  1907 less 38 gives 1869  (11 April 1907).

You may need to look for a NSW birth, born in Autumn/Winter NSW, in 1869.   Her given name may be indexed as Emily, or that may be her middle given name.  Also in that era in NSW, Emma and Emily are inter-changeable. 

Also, need to consider if Emily was from first or second marriage for Jack.
Jack WRIGHT died 1936, aged either 105 or 118 (or thereabouts). 

1936 less 1871 is 65 years.
118 less 65 gives Jack as aged 53 when Emily was born
105 less 65 gives Jack as aged 40 when Emily was born

So
look at possible NSW BDM deaths for Emily’s mum, assuming Emily was from first marriage and that Jack was informant and gave details of the children of first marriage…

They are still thinking of more options and will phone me again on the weekend. 

PS Use less is more with the online NSW BDM index.  If you have the CDs they may be better option for that era.  Also familysearch using Australia as location is a good option.

JM
DO NOT COPY PASTE ANY OF MY POSTS TO ANY OTHER FORUM. I DO NOT GIVE PERMISSION FOR ANY OF MY POSTS TO BE SHARED WITH OTHER FORUMS.
 Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.    
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk         
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes