Author Topic: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please - completed  (Read 846 times)

Offline teach3r

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Good morning and thank you as always for any help that can be given.

I confidently ordered the death certs of my great grandparents only to find that I may have made a mistake somewhere. 

I have checked back through what I do know.  My grandparents are Kenneth William Patterson and Barbara Mary Nicholson married 9 December 1947.  On their marriage cert (attached) Barbara's father is shown as Ernest Nicholson, Army officer retired, of 50 Hull Road Withernsea.

On the 1939 register I have Barbara M Nicholson living with Ethel M Nicholson and Ernest Nicholson, army pensioner.  I have assumed that this is the correct Barbara living at Bellevue, Waxholme Road. She is 13 in 1939 and then 21, 8 years later when she marries so seems likely.

I have then ordered Ernest's birth and death certs based on the date given for his birth in the 1939 register.  Ernest's death cert (attached) shows him as a retired cabinet maker of Bellevue, Waxholme Road (same address as 1939).  In the 1911 census I have him as "Chair maker (Manf. upholsterer & cabinet maker)" and 1913 marriage cert as "chair maker" so it isn't a huge leap to see him as a cabinet maker on his death cert.  Also the addresses and dates match.  The witness on Ernest' death cert is his Son Stanley William Nicholson (baptism details attached)

My problem is with Ethel.  On the marriage cert her maiden name is Grant.  On the 1939 register her DoB is 14/03/1893.  I couldn't find a death cert based on this date but I ordered one (attached)based on 14/03/1894 (exactly 1 year difference), however this states that she was a widow of Ernest Nicholson (retired gas board worker) and that her address was 48 Kirkfield Road.

As gas board worker and cabinet maker seem too far apart and there is a year difference in the birth dates do I have the same person?  The different addresses on the death certs are only about a mile apart and only a few houses away from the informant Joan Kathleen Nicholson (daughter in law). I can't find any details as to who Joan married to become a Nicholson (it doesn't seem to be Stanley).

Any help identifying whether I have the correct Ethel May would be appreciated (I think that I do - it is just the cabinet maker vs gas board worker that is throwing me!), as would any help identifying who Joan Kathleen is.

Many thanks,

Nic
Berkshire: Clarke, Croxford, Eustace
Devon: Blackmore, Matthews
Hull: Grant, Nicholson, Patterson, White
Gwyddelwern, Betws GG, Denbighshire: Davies, Evans
Glamorgan: Dean, Matthews
Bilston, Staffordshire: Dean
Shafton, Yorkshire: Miles, Moulson,
Wiltshire: Emery

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Offline Jebber

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Re: Puzzle: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 06 January 18 11:03 GMT (UK) »
Details on death certificates are reliant on the knowledge of the informant, this leaves them wide open to errors, I suggest the birth date and occupation are errors by the informant.

There is no birth registered fitting the date on Ethel's deaths certificate, but there is one in 1893 in Sculcoates that matches the 1939 Register, the mother's maiden name is Godfrey. In 1876 in Sculcoates William Grant married Mary Godfrey, this matches the family in in 1911, where William is a gardener as per the marriage certificate.

I think you have the correct death certificate, you need to try and discover the identity of Joan Kathleen Nicholson
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester, Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

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Offline Jebber

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Re: Puzzle: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 06 January 18 11:22 GMT (UK) »
Both Ernest and Ethel left WILLS, I would invest in them as they should provide som answers.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester, Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: Puzzle: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 06 January 18 11:38 GMT (UK) »
Hi
It looks like Joan Kathleen may be the Joan Kathleen Morgan who married Alan Nicholson in Eygpt in 1944 while in the services.
If so they came back to East Yorkshire and had 2 children.
Alan was born 1920 to a Mr Nicholson and formerly Miss Grant Mar 1920 at Sculcotes.
It looks like he died in Leeds Mar 1981 born 9 Feb 1920.

Ethel May Grant was born in Sculcotes June qtr 1893 mothers maiden name Godfrey.
William Grant had married Mary Godfrey  in Sep 1876 there so that fights with Ethel's marriage certificate

Other children  Herbert Mar 1877,Elizabeth Dec 1878,Ellen Sep 1880,William Sep 1882,George Dec 1884,Harold Dec 1886,Ruth Dec 1888, Frank Mar 1891 ,Evelyn June 1895   and Stanley Mar qtr 1901

William is a coachman /gardener born in Brocklesby Lincs in 1854 and Mary born 1858 in Melton Yorks.
The David and Gail family tree on Ancestry has photos of William and Mary.

Ernest  could have changed profession and it does look as though everything else fits.It depends on how well the daughter in law Joan Kathleen knew her father in law.He would have been retired by the time she married.Did he talk about his previous profession?Did she never ask?

Ciderdrinker

Offline teach3r

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Re: Puzzle: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 06 January 18 12:09 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much Jebber and Cidedrinker

Jebber: I have just ordered the wills to see what they might contain.
Ciderdrinker: Is it still possible to get a certificate even if the marriage was in Egypt?

Thanks again,

Nic

Berkshire: Clarke, Croxford, Eustace
Devon: Blackmore, Matthews
Hull: Grant, Nicholson, Patterson, White
Gwyddelwern, Betws GG, Denbighshire: Davies, Evans
Glamorgan: Dean, Matthews
Bilston, Staffordshire: Dean
Shafton, Yorkshire: Miles, Moulson,
Wiltshire: Emery

Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: Puzzle: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 06 January 18 13:13 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Yes it is possible to get a marriage certificate
It's under GRO index Army marriages  1881-1995
Alan Nicholson Cairo Eygpt 1944 page 639  line 48 is the reference from FindMyPast but I'd just go with the year 1944

General Register Office
Telephone: 0300 123 1837
Text relay: 18001 0300 123 1837
Monday to Friday, 8am to 8pm
Saturday, 9am to 4pm

I've not ordered them myself so if it was me i'd phone them up and ask exactly what details they need and order it that way rather than online.

Joan K
Last name   Morgan
Marriage year   1944
Marriage place   Cairo
Country   Egypt
Spouse's first name(s)   -
Spouse's last name   -
Page   639
Line number   125

It's supposed to cost 9.25

Ciderdrinker

Offline avm228

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Re: Puzzle: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 06 January 18 13:39 GMT (UK) »
Easy to order online - just use the Overseas Events form on GRO Online and enter all the index info found (including volume title, page no etc).
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline teach3r

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Re: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert please - completed
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 06 January 18 19:05 GMT (UK) »
Thanks avm
Berkshire: Clarke, Croxford, Eustace
Devon: Blackmore, Matthews
Hull: Grant, Nicholson, Patterson, White
Gwyddelwern, Betws GG, Denbighshire: Davies, Evans
Glamorgan: Dean, Matthews
Bilston, Staffordshire: Dean
Shafton, Yorkshire: Miles, Moulson,
Wiltshire: Emery

Offline teach3r

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Re: Wrong Ethel M Nicholson (Ne Grant) - help with death cert - more questions
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 04 February 18 12:56 GMT (UK) »
Since the kind help on this thread, I have ordered the Will for Ernest Nicholson which has thrown up more questions than it answers!

Ernest's will contains the following: All my possessions to my son Bernard Nicholson the property known as Belle Vue, Waxholme, Withernsea, East Yorkshire to be let (not sold) the rent to be paid for his use to his mother Mrs Margaret Lavinia Dixon 

I would be grateful for any help tracking down when Bernard was born and who Mrs Dixon was.  Both of these names are new to me.  Interestingly, Bernard is living in Paignton, Devon.

As always, thank you in advance for any help that can be given.

Nic
Berkshire: Clarke, Croxford, Eustace
Devon: Blackmore, Matthews
Hull: Grant, Nicholson, Patterson, White
Gwyddelwern, Betws GG, Denbighshire: Davies, Evans
Glamorgan: Dean, Matthews
Bilston, Staffordshire: Dean
Shafton, Yorkshire: Miles, Moulson,
Wiltshire: Emery