Looking for John Williams, Llanelly

[Chris 71]

I am looking for John Williams earlier life and family. He was born 1868 and was married in Llanelly in 1892 to Elizabeth Evans. They lived in Mill Street and he died on 23rd May 1900 age 32 with his address given as 10 Mill St. He is buried I believe in St David's though whether that's a church or parish I don't know. He had 3 children Esther J. (b.1894) David J. (b.1898) and Samuel (b.1900) and a stepson Evan L Evans (b.1892) Not sure how he died. Elizabeth moved to 18 Mill St after his death. She may have had her brother (?) Daniel living with her. (b.1890) Any help appreciated.

[osprey]

he was buried on the 23rd May but he died as the result of an accident in Carmarthen during the celebrations for the relief of Mafeking

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3583402/3583405/12/

He was known as Jack Wyndham according to the article and his father was at the inquest and  gave evidence about his age.

Here's your earlier post about this family who lived in Mill St, Carmarthen, not Llanelli.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=762182.0

Esther Jane was baptised in St Peter's, Carmarthen 14 Aug 1894, daughter of John, labourer, & Elizabeth of Mill St.
David John bp 21 June 1898, same details for parents, Steam Mill, Carmarthen
Samuel bp 24 July 1900, same details for parents, Rogers Cottages, Mill St.

[osprey]

there would appear to be more children to the couple, one of the newspaper reports mentions a widow and 6 children. Here's the birth announcement for a daughter born 17 May 1896

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3582027/3582030/30/

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4341125/4341128/11/

The death of Elizabeth's mother, Esther, also had an inquest
http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3762463/3762470/45/

Do you have Elizabeth & John's marriage certificate to confirm name & occupation for John's father?

[Chris 71]

Thank you for all of that information. Yes I already had details of the three children (I think the six was a mistake) I have ordered the marriage certificate for John and Elizabeth. I have yet to find John's birth details. Apart from the year I know nothing yet.

[osprey]

given how common his name is, it would be an idea to wait for the marriage cert and then add the info to this post so we can search again with father's details. Cert should also give addresses at time of marriage.

It's guesswork otherwise.

Definitely another daughter as shown by the birth announcement from 1896. I suspect that Evan & Daniel may have been included in the count: Daniel is enumerated as son in 1901. Also, you should check the 1911 details as number of children is noted on that.

 

[Chris 71]

The daughter is not listed on the 1911 so I think she may have died. There were only 3 living with her when John died and she had Samuel a couple of months later. That's probably where the six came from. She said she had six meaning the four living with her, the dead one and Daniel who I'm not sure about. Don't know if he is her brother or son. If he is her son, who is his father? Evan's father was named as Llewellyn Evans on his marriage certificate but not on his birth certificate. She married John in 1892.

[Chris 71]

This is beyond ridiculous. I order a marriage certificate for John Williams / Elizabeth Evans and the GRO say they are not married to each other. I have lots on them census etc to prove they were together and the reference Llanelly, 1892 Sep qtr, 11a 1323 is on both their names. Even on the original GRO entries. But speaking to them on the phone today they say they are not married to each other. So what on earth do I do now? Anyone had this before?

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Most GRO references cover two marriages - so this could mean that a John Williams and an Elizabeth Evans have the same reference, but are part of two different couples.

[Chris 71]

Well they were definitely a couple. They had kids together and lived together and were named on a census. Every certificate I have got in the past was obtained by using the same number for both people. So at a loss here. What would be the point of them having the same number if they were not a couple. If that's the case then you would never be able to find out. I looked on the family search org and even on there they are named with each other. In fact her three younger children all had his surname.