Author Topic: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance  (Read 475 times)

Offline Lensmeister

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1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« on: Thursday 11 January 18 13:38 GMT (UK) »
Greetings all,

I have a 1780 Marriage that I need some help with.  Initially I thought it was German but it seems to be Latin.

I have attached the original entry as a image.

below is what someone has kindly transcibed from handwritting to text for me but I have zero latin abilities.

The marriage is in Grafenstein Austria between Josef Lairoutz and Christine Winkler. I have a sneaking suspicion that Christina was a widow but not sure.

Quote
II Pirek data S˙nodalia
Die 25 bris Idem supra praemissis denuntiationibus
juasum prima Dominica 18, sda in festo S. Mathaei, Austria
Prica igno post Penth; inter Missarum solemnia habito
est nulloque impedimento Canonico detecto honestum
Josephum juvenem honesti Pauli Ba˙rovits et conjugis
Maria ambto defunctorum filium legit. hujis
Parochiae et honestam Christinam Winklerin vulgo
Shtamizyn Viduam ...Pirek pariter hujis Parochiae
interrogavit, eorumque consensu mutuo habito
solemniter per verbo de praesenti matrimonio conjunxit
praesentibus testibus Francisco Velick filio legit.
Simonis Velick et Martino Habernigg, un lgc?
zhotej, filio legit. Philippi Habernigg omnes hujus
Parochiae

Many thanks in advance.
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Online Girl Guide

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 11 January 18 15:47 GMT (UK) »
Hello Lensmeister

With all due respect to the person who transcribed the handwriting, I think some of the words have been misread.

I popped the text into google latin to english and although a good bit of it made sense, other areas were quite odd.  Some of the words didn't appear to have been translated which possibly suggests they have been misread.

One I think is incorrect is 'Prica' on the left fourth line down.  I think the first letter may possibly be a T?  It doesn't look the same as the word 'Penth' where the P seems to be quite clear.

I think there is someone on Rootschat who is good at Latin and hopefully will see this post and help you out.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 11 January 18 16:07 GMT (UK) »
Just so that you can see the oddness of the translation, this is what Google came up with:-

2 Pirek given Synodall
On 25 November, the same value as the previous notices
The first Sunday juasum 18, SDA, S. Mathai, Austria
Prica unknown after Penth; Mass was possessed
there is no impediment detection of becoming a Canon
Joseph, a young man of honesty and partner Paul Ba˙rovits
Seas Ambts his daughter reads. hujiis
Christine district and honest generally Winklerin
Shtamizyn widow ... Pirek both liable Parishes
he asked their consent exchanges
By the word ordinarily present married together
and read in the presence of witnesses to the son of Francisco Velick.
Simon and Martin Velick Habernigg, a LGC?
zhotej, the son of a book. All of Philip Habernigg
parish:

Definitely needs some fine tuning.  I think the person who is good at Latin is called Bookbox but I'm not 100% sure.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline josey

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 11 January 18 16:09 GMT (UK) »
Bookbox, horselydown86 & arthurk [and others whose names I cannot remember] are all fantastic at latin & old handwriting. They keep an eye on this board so I am sure they will be along shortly.....
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 11 January 18 16:17 GMT (UK) »
Ah thanks Josey.  I was pretty sure there were some others who were good at this but their names didn't come to mind.  I could only remember Bookbox.
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline horselydown86

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 11 January 18 16:30 GMT (UK) »
Bookbox, horselydown86 & arthurk [and others whose names I cannot remember] are all fantastic at latin...

I'm afraid you pay me a compliment I don't deserve, Josey.  I'm strictly a bluffer & battler with the Latin.  This one is well beyond my limited capacity.

Offline josey

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 11 January 18 16:35 GMT (UK) »
Oh well, made you feel good for a while, eh? You are certainly amazing with old handwriting so don't hide your light....

PS I did notice 'viduam' after Christine's name which refers to her being a 'widow'. 
Seeking: baptism Philip Murray 1813 nr Chatham Kent, death Ralph James Dunn b 1808 1861 - 1868 in Newington 1861
IRE: Kik DRAY[EA], PURCELL, WHITE: Mea LYNCH: Tip MURRAY, SHEEDY: Wem ALLEN, ENGLISHBY; Dub PENROSE: Lim DUNN[E], FRAWLEY, WILLIAMS.
87th Regiment RIF: MURRAY
ENG; Marylebone HAYTER, TROU[W]SDALE, Con HAMPTON, TREMELLING Wry CLEGG, HOLLAND, HORSEFIELD Coventry McGINTY
CAN; Nova Scotia [Halifax, Pictou]: HOLLAND, WHITE, WILLIAMSON

Offline arthurk

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 11 January 18 17:13 GMT (UK) »
Feeling my arm slightly twisted, here's a very quick attempt. Some bits defeated me, but it should be a start.

First, I'm not sure about the heading Data Synodalia - might it be something similar to Bishops Transcripts?

ii Pirck
On the 25th day of September [in the same year as above?] notices having been given
of which the first on the 18th Sunday, 2nd on the feast of St Matthew, and the 3rd
on the 19th Sunday after Pentecost, between the rites of the Mass ......
... and no canonical impediment being detected, [Latin verb is in line 10] (1)
Joseph son of (1) Paul Layrouitz and of his wife
Mary both deceased, their legitimate son, of this
parish, and (1) Christina Winklerin, commonly
Shtamizin? widow of Pirck equally of this parish
[she claimed?] and by their mutual consent ...
solemnly by words of ... I joined in matrimony
Witnesses present: Francis Velick, legitimate son
of Simon Velick, and Martin Habernigg, commonly
Zholgi?, legitimate son of Philip Habernigg, all of this
parish

(1) at these points there is the Latin word honestum/honestam, which means honest or honourable. I wasn't sure how best to translate it here - might it just be a conventional form like Mr or Mrs?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lensmeister

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Re: 1780 Austrian Marriage Assistance
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 11 January 18 20:18 GMT (UK) »
Feeling my arm slightly twisted, here's a very quick attempt. Some bits defeated me, but it should be a start.

First, I'm not sure about the heading Data Synodalia - might it be something similar to Bishops Transcripts?

ii Pirck
On the 25th day of September [in the same year as above?] notices having been given
of which the first on the 18th Sunday, 2nd on the feast of St Matthew, and the 3rd
on the 19th Sunday after Pentecost, between the rites of the Mass ......
... and no canonical impediment being detected, [Latin verb is in line 10] (1)
Joseph son of (1) Paul Layrouitz and of his wife
Mary both deceased, their legitimate son, of this
parish, and (1) Christina Winklerin, commonly
Shtamizin? widow of Pirck equally of this parish
[she claimed?] and by their mutual consent ...
solemnly by words of ... I joined in matrimony
Witnesses present: Francis Velick, legitimate son
of Simon Velick, and Martin Habernigg, commonly
Zholgi?, legitimate son of Philip Habernigg, all of this
parish

(1) at these points there is the Latin word honestum/honestam, which means honest or honourable. I wasn't sure how best to translate it here - might it just be a conventional form like Mr or Mrs?

Thanks you all especially arthurk :)

I found a possible relative on MyHeritage. SHe has Christina Winkler (it's all in German) but next to her name is this:

Christina verwitwete Lajroutz, vulg.Shtamitz (geb. Pugl verw.Winkler)

I get that geb. means geboren (born) which could mean she was born Christina Pugl and was widowed when she married Josef.

Any ideas ?

No idea what vulg.Stamitz means ... vulg could mean vulgo which in latin means generally

Hugkulstone: All
Stogdon, Preedy, Harris, Jenkins, Thaler, Vail, Brown (Whitby), Browne (Sussex), Infield, Feldwick, Knowles, Dodman, Nicholls, Anderson, Dell, Brooker, Purvey, Gibb, Cox. Wifes Side:Burningham, Hill, Sanger, Morrison, Mulholland, Legg, Lake, Ewence, Gurd, Bowden.
And Whitby Town Players.