Which James Henderson?

[Tom Huygens]

Hi all,

I already posted my "problem" a year ago, but it remained a mystery. With new members and new resources available, maybe I'll have better luck now. I really don't have a clue...

My 4th great-grandfather was James Henderson, born St James Westminster (according to the 1881 census: Windmill street) around 1811.

There are 2 possible James', both of whom have pros and cons. I would like to find out which one of them was my James...

The first ("James1") was born in December 1810 in St James Westminster. He was baptised in the Anglican church on January 20th 1811, at the church of St James Piccadilly.
His parents were James Henderson and Ann Lidster. They had a bunch of other children. Thomas, John and George Henderson all appear as witnesses to baptisms, marriages or other documents related to James1, and it so happens that these are the names of his brothers.

The second ("james2") was born on Windmill Street (!) and baptised on May 17th 1813 in the Scottish Church on Swallow Street. His parents are James Henderson and Ann Rae, immigrants from Edinburgh. He too has brothers George and John, but no Thomas.

My gut feeling says that James1 is more likely to be "my" James, only based on the fact that his siblings fit the bill better. But I don't really have definite proof of that.
On the other hand, the sepcific mention of "Windmill Street" clearly links my james to James2...

Do you have any tips on how to find out which one was mine?

Thanks in advance!
Tom


PS there is a will of a James Henderson who died 1822 on Windmill Street, but that is 1) a different James and 2) a different Windmill Street. The Windmill Street where he lived was at St Pancras, off Tottenham Court Road, while the Windmill Street of James2 was at st James, off Leicester Square (his baptism also mentions Panton Square, which means the Windmill Street meant was the one that was demolished in the 1920's to build "Trocadero" on Coventry/Rupert Street).

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
You don't seem to have given any details for the James Henderson you are looking for except that he's in Windmill St on the 1881 census ,which unfortunately I can't find.

It looks as though one of the boys married 12 July 1843 at St Ann's soho
James Henderson full bach officer in Excise King St James Henderson  tailor
Mary Ann Blaker  same address John Blaker grocer
wit John Blaker Martha Ann Winett and S.e. Winett.

The other seems to be a tailor
1851 census
James 40 tailor St James
Mary A 49 waistcoat maker "
Emily 19 "
Charlotte 17 "
Frances 14 servant
Lucy 8 St Ann's Soho.

Mother's maiden name seems to be Gibson
The 1841 places them in Porter St St Ann Soho.Also with them the Francis family which suggests Mary is a widow and their marriage is at St Martins in the Fields 12.6.1831.James Henderson and Mary Ann Francis wit John Henderson

So finding the other James on the 1841 hopefully with his family would help eliminate one of them.
There is a James Henderson senior Indep born Scotland age 50 Green St Hanover Square but I can't see the younger.
Could the records of excise men help?

Ciderdrinker

[Tom Huygens]

Hello
You don't seem to have given any details for the James Henderson you are looking for except that he's in Windmill St on the 1881 census ,which unfortunately I can't find.

You're absolutely right, sorry about that. Here is what I have:

12 June 1831
marriage to Mary Ann Francis
the baptism of one of his children confirms her maiden name was Gibson. She had been married to Edward Francis before.

1841 census
living on Porter Street, St Ann Soho
James Henderson (30), born Middlesex, a tailor
Mary Henderson (35) --> his wife
Emily Henderson ( --> their daughter
Charlotte Henderson (7) --> their daughter
Frances Henderson (5) --> their daughter
Mary Francis (15) --> Mary Ann's daughter with Edward Francis, her 1st husband
Edward Francis (10) --> Mary Ann's son with Edward Francis, her 1st husband
Hellen Francis (9) --> Mary Ann's daughter with Edward Francis, her 1st husband

1851 census
living on Porter Street, St Ann Soho
James Henderson (40), born Westminster St James, a tailor
Mary A. Henderson (49), wife
Emily Henderson (19), daughter
Charlotte Henderson (17), daughter
Frances Henderson (14), daughter
Lucy Henderson (, daughter


1861 census
living on Castle Street, St Martin in the Fields --> this is the prolongation of Porter Street
James Henderson (50), born Middlesex, a tailor
Mary Ann Henderson (57), wife
Lucy Henderson (18), daughter
Eliza Russell (14), daughter --> in reality, Mary Ann's granddaughter through her daughter Mary Ann Francis
Ellen Carlisle (13), daughter --> in reality, Mary Ann's granddaughter through her daughter Hellen (Ellen, Eleanor) Francis
Edward Francis (10), son --> in reality, Mary Ann's grandson through her son Edward


1871 census
living on St Martin Street, St Martin in the Fields
James Henderson (60), born London St James, a tailor
Mary A. Henderson (67), wife
Eleanor Carlisle (22), granddaughter --> the same Ellen as mentioned in 1861

1881 census
living on King Street, St Anne Soho
with the family of his daughter:
James Henderson (58), born Windmill Street Westminster, a tailor, widower --> Mary Ann had died in August 1880 at the same address, King Street, with their daughter's family

James Gibbons (39), head
Lucy Laura Gibbons (38), wife --> James Henderson's daughter
Mary Ann Frances Gibbons (16), daughter
Eliza Lucy Gibbons (14), daughter
Margaret Gibbons (11), daughter


James Henderson died November 24th 1881 at the hospital (Poland Street Workhouse, which wasn't a workhouse anymore but a hospital at that time).




I am sure that "my" James Henderson was married to Mary Ann Gibson/Francis.
Seeing a James Henderson on King Street marry a Mary Ann Blaker, makes me wonder if the James Henderson living on King Street with his daughter Lucy is not a different one than mine. But it would be a huge coincidence that two James Hendersons, both tailors, both marry a Mary Ann and both have a daughter Lucy around 1843...
I will check that out. If the King Street James indeed has a daughter Lucy as well, that means he is the one on the 1881 census and the Windmill Street reference is indeed not intended for my James.


EDIT: I remain confident that the James in the 1881 census is mine...

1) he's a tailor, while the one married to Mary Ann Blaker was an "officer in excise"
2) the only Lucy Laura Henderson born in the 1840's is the daughter of James and Mary Ann Gibson (according to the gro index)
3) Lucy Laura named her daughter "Mary Ann Frances", which was her mother's full name before her marriage (Mary Ann Francis)

So, the King Street must be a coincidence. Or... (and now I'm getting all conspiracy theory-ish):
Lucy Laura was born in February 1843. A James Henderson married Mary Ann Blaker in July 1843. James and Mary Ann Gibson have no more children after 1843. Maybe Mary Ann Gibson actually died shortly after Lucy Laura was born, and James remarried soon to have a wife to help him look after the very young children. As they were both "Mary Ann" that doesn't show on the census.
Problems with that:
- both Mary Ann's must have been from the same parish and about the same age
- it doesn't solve the tailor / tax collector problem
- it doesn't explain why his address in 1841 would have been Porter Street, in 1843 King Street, in 1851 Porter Street again, and then in the 1880's King Street all over

So this "theory" can be excluded as well I guess.



Thanks!


Kind regards,
Tom

[Lily M]

You mention brothers Thomas and George being witnesses etc in connection with James 1.  I see John as witness to James and Mary Francis marriage, but can’t see the others at all.  Can you tell us where and when they are please.

[Tom Huygens]

You mention brothers Thomas and George being witnesses etc in connection with James 1.  I see John as witness to James and Mary Francis marriage, but can’t see the others at all.  Can you tell us where and when they are please.

Sure.
At James' marriage to Mary Ann Gibson, witnesses are John Henderson (his brother?), and Margaret Donaldson. Margaret Donaldson is Thomas Henderson's future wife (they will marry in 1834) and daughter of Mary Ann Gibson's sister Charlotte Gibson (married to William Donaldson).
George Henderson was a witness at the marriage of Mary Ann Gibson's brother, Stuart Gibson.

I admit, rather circumstantial, but there are also some naming patterns between the Henderson and Gibson families (among others the use of "Frances" and "Donaldson" as middle name).

Tom

[Lily M]

Thank you for such a precise answer.   You’ve certainly done your research.  Appreciated, but am not too confident I’ll get any further with it.

[Lily M]

Also, the Elizabeth Henderson marriage to Charles South in 1854 has the witnesses Thomas and Margaret Henderson.  I think the Thomas Henderson signature was written by the same hand as the Thomas Henderson marrying 1834.

Elizabeth Henderson b.1823 Berwick Street  parents James & Ann - tailor

(Great) Windmill Street and Panton Square were very close to one another, but not the same place.

Elizabeth (who must have died young) daughter of James & Ann, was born 1813 at Great Windmill Street, so very possible that the family were living there two years earlier when James was born.

There’s a lot pointing towards James 1.

[Lily M]

On the 1861, Elizabeth South is with her mother, Ann Henderson age 73 born Durham, Sunderland.

Does that fit in with your family.

[Tom Huygens]

Also, the Elizabeth Henderson marriage to Charles South in 1854 has the witnesses Thomas and Margaret Henderson.  I think the Thomas Henderson signature was written by the same hand as the Thomas Henderson marrying 1834.

Elizabeth Henderson b.1823 Berwick Street  parents James & Ann - tailor

(Great) Windmill Street and Panton Square were very close to one another, but not the same place.

Elizabeth (who must have died young) daughter of James & Ann, was born 1813 at Great Windmill Street, so very possible that the family were living there two years earlier when James was born.

There’s a lot pointing towards James 1.

Sorry for my late reply, for some reason I didn't get a notification...

The mother of Elizabeth would have been Ann Lidster, born in London, so probably not the one living with her mother in Sunderland. The Durham Ann Henderson was born in 1788, which would have made her barely 18 at the birth of her 1st child, and 11 years younger than her husband.

EDIT: this being said... There seems to be an Ann Lidster who was born in Bishopwearmouth (next to Sunderland) in 1788... The Elizabeth Henderson I found died in November 1823, the one marrying Charles South was born in September 1823 when the other one was still alive, but she only got baptized in 1824. Maybe she was another daughter of my James and Ann, and they named her after her sister who died shortly after her birth?
Stuff to think about...