Missing DOD For VictorianFootballers

[DavidG02]

I have been involved in a little side project and had a lot of fun and practice doing look ups trying to find Date of Birth and Date of Death of ex-Australian Football League (AFL) and ex-Victorian Football League (VFL) AFL/VFL football players.

I/we have come to a standstill and wondered if anyone knows of the people or has some information that could help. Or as we do you could have a look yourselves.

Some on my list could still be living so I will only post those who are presumed well and truly dead. The following list contains birth dates , as best guessed at times, of players listed by clubs.

To help I shall include the club and time frame for those who use Trove.


11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897 aka Samuel Otto William Buck
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42  Underworld ties which may have lead to an unknown grave

22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931

23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902 Family moved to Scotland , some info suggests Bobby moved to Argentina

39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935 Used change of names

40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898

54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898 aka Kirwan, Kirwen etc
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936 Mother died in Zimbabwe 1948 , WF Leahy from South Africa to USA in 1948 then no more info

60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98 Found a possible ref to NZ death but may not be

63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04 Trove reference to WW1 passing but no records

65 James "Jim" Gordon Lyons b:5/4/1876 Carlton 1897-98
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903

73 *John "Jack" Llewellen Matthews b:22/10/1914 NthMelb 1941 Last sighting Tasmania

74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899 3 possible choices , St Arnaud strong contender

76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
77 Robert "Rhoda" Ernest McDonald b:29/4/1878 Coll 1897, Carl 1901,Rich(VFA) 1901-07
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929

84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38 Alfred is the subject of a thread on Rootschat under Briggs/Neeson. He is found in Western Australia under Briggs

87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897 A Michael oHagan is found to have passed his chemistry studies and apart from a 1908 court case no more is heard

88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935 George was a Merchant seaman and last record is inbound to USA

90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897 Possible Japanese probate record posted in Melbourne papers 1947

94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911 Abandoned his wife in 1923 and thats the last recorded notice attributed to him

95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906
108 Horace "Horrie" Stewart b:29/5/1871 Ess 1898
110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924

114 Tom Wellington b:27/10/1894 Melb 1912-13 Tragic tale of bigamous wife , disappears so much so there is a 'where is he' placed in Trove

117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909

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Most of the records have been sourced from Vic BDM and Trove as well as AIF and WW2 Nominal Roll,  Also AustralianCemeteries and DeceasedOnline. Some have used electoral rolls to confirm residences. A lot of the earlier players were only listed by last name and guesses at identity have been taken. But my motto is find the DOD and let others worry if they played football.

Research on others have found them scattered all over Australia and the world

[Nanna52]

Have you tried the clubs David?  Some have museums and links to past players.

[Jamjar]

87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897 A Michael oHagan is found to have passed his chemistry studies and apart from a 1908 court case no more is heard

There is a tree on My Heritage that has a person by this name born in 1878. He marries in VIC in

1906 7849 OHAGAN Michl to LEE Margt

His death, with year and parents matching online tree, but tree has age of 49:

1928 10162 OHAGAN Michael parents OHAGEN Michael and Bridget (Brown) Footscray aged 53.

If it is him, he was born in 1873: OHAGAN Michael parents Michael and Bridget (Brown) 1873 27902

The birth of one of their children shows the correct parents names, as per their tree:

1913 12649 OHAGAN Cath Mary parents Michl Jas and Margt Ann Christina (Lee)   

Jamjar

[DavidG02]

Have you tried the clubs David?  Some have museums and links to past players.

Yes. This is a project the AFL have asked volunteers to help. The clubs are a good starting source but it seems these are ones even they dont have the info on.

[DavidG02]

87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897 A Michael oHagan is found to have passed his chemistry studies and apart from a 1908 court case no more is heard

There is a tree on My Heritage that has a person by this name born in 1878. He marries in VIC in

1906 7849 OHAGAN Michl to LEE Margt

His death, with year and parents matching online tree, but tree has age of 49:

1928 10162 OHAGAN Michael parents OHAGEN Michael and Bridget (Brown) Footscray aged 53.

If it is him, he was born in 1873: OHAGAN Michael parents Michael and Bridget (Brown) 1873 27902

The birth of one of their children shows the correct parents names, as per their tree:

1913 12649 OHAGAN Cath Mary parents Michl Jas and Margt Ann Christina (Lee)   

Jamjar

The early records were quite poor and to be blunt St Kildas club records were the worst of the lot. There has also been a lot of ''ok he started playing football this year so lets look for the closest Michael aged around 20'' etc

The 1878 MOH was born to John and Mary Ann (Creed) . An interesting sidelight is I believe John and Mary Ann died early and an uncle took them in. I wonder if the uncle is the Michael and Bridget Brown. Hmm

Its also quite possible he returned or went to Ireland

[JACK GEE]

Hello DavidGo2,
I like your work.
I also have several AFL/VFL players in my greater family tree. Would you be able to give me the Birth and death [if applicable]  dates of the following -
Thomas Paterson - Collingwood 1897
Norm Cashin - Carlton - 1936
Robert McClure - Essendon - 1946
Jack Parker - Collingwood - 1951
Stuart Lennie - St.Kilda - 1955
Robert Fox - Essendon - 1955
Mark Komp - Footscray - 1981

Cheers
Jack Gee

[DavidG02]

Hello DavidGo2,
I like your work.
I also have several AFL/VFL players in my greater family tree. Would you be able to give me the Birth and death [if applicable]  dates of the following -
Thomas Paterson - Collingwood 1897
Norm Cashin - Carlton - 1936
Robert McClure - Essendon - 1946
Jack Parker - Collingwood - 1951
Stuart Lennie - St.Kilda - 1955
Robert Fox - Essendon - 1955
Mark Komp - Footscray - 1981

Cheers
Jack Gee

Cheers. Just quickly , and you may wish to do this yourself, if you believe they have played 'Aussie Rules' then a wikipedia search using their name should find something ie

Full name   Thomas Paterson
Date of birth   26 October 1874
Place of birth   Northcote, Victoria
Date of death   11 September 1945 (aged 70)

Full name   Norm Cashin
Date of birth   15 July 1915
Date of death   21 July 1969 (aged 54)

Bob Mcclure
Date of birth   5 June 1925
Date of death   17 July 2003 (aged 78)

Full name   Jack James Parker
Date of birth   3 May 1931
Date of death   1 September 2003 (aged 72)

source
 Holmesby, Russell; Main, Jim (2014). The Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers: every AFL/VFL player since 1897 (10th ed.). Seaford, Victoria: BAS Publishing. p. 509. ISBN 978-1-921496-32-5.

On the others named I shall send you a PM

Nice family lineage

[JACK GEE]

Hi David,
 how did you go with the roundup?

cheers
Jack Gee

[DavidG02]

For Jack and those interested. This has been a good test of searching skills and lateral thinking. The best thing is the internet makes it so much easier today than ever before. There have been some breakthroughs and we have been able to cross some names out. Now that this has a bump I shall update as much as I can

65 James "Jim" Gordon Lyons b:5/4/1876 Carlton 1897-98 

This was a nice little puzzle. Using Vic BDM we found that he had 3 birth certificates. One under Fathers name Meehan, another under fathers name Bennet and a further Father Unknown mother Catherine. It was narrowed to James Gordon Bennett passing in 1934

77 Robert "Rhoda" Ernest McDonald b:29/4/1878 Coll 1897, Carl 1901,Rich(VFA) 1901-07

This was another puzzle and solved/accepted on the basis of occupation only. Roberts father was a bootmaker and Robert followed in his fathers footsteps. His father died and left the business to another son.

The only reference to anything close to Robert Ernest was for a Richard Ernest dying in Sydney and the only notice placed by the Bootmakers Guild. Checking the BDMs there is a Richard Ernest and same parents as Robert Ernest. Accepted under those terms

73 *John "Jack" Llewellen Matthews b:22/10/1914 NthMelb 1941 Last sighting Tasmania Accepted as passing in 1994

108 Horace "Horrie" Stewart b:29/5/1871 Ess 1898 Died in Auckland 1951. Notes in NZ papers link to Tasmania birth

114 Tom Wellington b:27/10/1894 Melb 1912-13 Tragic tale of bigamous wife , disappears so much so there is a 'where is he' placed in Trove again this is guesswork but the feeling is its a very good guess. Tom led an indigent life and his court appearances reached over 100, mostly for begging and vagrancy. There is a Trove notice that places him in Adelaide in the early 50s and no more until a Thomas Joseph Wellington dies in 1955. The feeling is its a paupers grave as its re-used 6 Weeks after his burial.

118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909 There is an argument about this one. The AFL say its a definite 1890 birth yet all their chatter is about him being the brother of a player. That fits an 1880 birth and matches parents etc. So this is still unresolved but discussion abounds

All the rest are still to be found and until better records or time passes for record release then its on pause.

11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897 aka Samuel Otto William Buck
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42  Underworld ties which may have lead to an unknown grave
22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931
23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902 Family moved to Scotland , some info suggests Bobby moved to Argentina
39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935 Used change of names
40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898
54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898 aka Kirwan, Kirwen etc
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936 Mother died in Zimbabwe 1948 , WF Leahy from South Africa to USA in 1948 then no more info
60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98 Found a possible ref to NZ death but may not be
63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04 Trove reference to WW1 passing but no records
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899 3 possible choices , St Arnaud strong contender
76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929
84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38 Alfred is the subject of a thread on Rootschat under Briggs/Neeson. He is found in Western Australia under Briggs
87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897 A Michael oHagan is found to have passed his chemistry studies and apart from a 1908 court case no more is heard
88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935 George was a Merchant seaman and last record is inbound to USA
90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897 Possible Japanese probate record posted in Melbourne papers 1947
94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911 Abandoned his wife in 1923 and thats the last recorded notice attributed to him
95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906
110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924
117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909

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There you go