Author Topic: 1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!  (Read 239 times)

Offline nat11911

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1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« on: Saturday 13 January 18 14:22 GMT (UK) »
Hi all - Scottish letter dated 1675, addressed to ‘The Bailyie in Selkirk’, then ‘Mutch honered friend’.

I’m having problems deciphering a couple of words if anyone can help please - the final words on lines 1 & 6. I suspect the first may be a Latin term beginning with a ‘q’, and the second, due to the horizontal line, may be a contraction. My transcription of the first 10 lines is as follows, after which is how I guess we may read it today.

Many thanks for your insights and expertise as usual!  :)

Chris 


Yors of the twentie fyft currant we receivd this day q…?
ye shew us what refurme yo have receated from Sr Patr
Murray, bot seeing he was at the paines to send to sese we
cannot bot admeir nogh [that] he did not ureat to ye Lairds of
Phillaphauge, and he andeing to bacuw yr mynds [and] auert that
dead arbitrall as noe hurted to yow in our last T…?
cannot be execated that ane will so abbrupte put or hands
to ane dead in ye affair untrew we bacuw ye myndes of
thos that trusted us or ye representatives, we ar mutch
affraydd that inrespect of the shortnes of hime yt will………………….


Yors of the twentie fyft currant we receivd this day [in which?]
ye shew us what improvement yo have accepted from Sr Patrick
Murray, but seeing he took the trouble to dispatch settlement we
cannot but marvel not [that] he did not write to ye Lairds of
Philiphaugh, and he breathing to move back your mynds [and] turn away from that
decree as not doing mischief to you in our last […?]
cannot be blinded that one will so abbruptly put our hands
to a criminal act in the dishonest affair we back away from ye myndes of
those that trusted us or ye representatives, we are mutch
affraydd that in respect of his shortcomings yt [that] will………………



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Offline nat11911

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Re: 1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 13 January 18 14:25 GMT (UK) »
Sorry for the strange underlining, but can't get rid of it...

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Offline Bookbox

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Re: 1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 13 January 18 14:32 GMT (UK) »
The first of your missing words is qrin = wherein.

The second is l(ett)re = letter.

Offline nat11911

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Re: 1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 13 January 18 14:39 GMT (UK) »
Thanks bookbox - brilliant!

I actually read 'qrin' (or perhaps 'qrine') from the start, but couldn't pinpoint or make sense of that word. And I never considered that the second word could actually be two.

Thanks very much.

Chris

Offline Bookbox

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Re: 1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 13 January 18 14:54 GMT (UK) »
You’re welcome.
I’m a little concerned about a few other words in your transcription – e.g. in line 10 it is surely ... shortnes of tyme (not hime) – but I’d prefer to leave the rest of it to a Scottish expert.

ADDED - if you were to add the word Scottish to the subject header it might attract the right person  ;)

Offline nat11911

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Re: 1675 Scottish Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 13 January 18 15:09 GMT (UK) »
You’re welcome.
I’m a little concerned about a few other words in your transcription – e.g. in line 10 it is surely ... shortnes of tyme (not hime) – but I’d prefer to leave the rest of it to a Scottish expert.

ADDED - if you were to add the word Scottish to the subject header it might attract the right person  ;)

'Scottish' added - good suggestion ;)

And thanks also for the 'tyme' suggestion. Again, during the many hours I've spent staring at this letter I've wondered about that too. My problem is that I'm pretty new to 'old Scots', so it's taking me a while to decide whether a word is simply an English word mis-spelled or oddly-written, or whether it's actually an unfamiliar Scottish word (possibly mis-spelled too). Add to that the difficulty in joining those words together to make a sensible sentence and give some context, and you'll understand how I might have gone a bit off-track here and there. It's all good fun though.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: 1675 Scottish Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 13 January 18 15:21 GMT (UK) »
to decide whether a word is simply an English word mis-spelled or oddly-written, or whether it's actually an unfamiliar Scottish word (possibly mis-spelled too). Add to that the difficulty in joining those words together to make a sensible sentence and give some context, and you'll understand how I might have gone a bit off-track here and there. It's all good fun though.

I totally agree. And far better to have a go at it, as you have done, than just to post the image and ask for a transcription from someone else  :)

Offline GR2

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Re: 1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 13 January 18 21:00 GMT (UK) »
A quick look from line 11:

remains it will be hard to get ye bussines done wtout (= without) ane
[      ] submissione qrin (= wherein) we apprehend yr will be no
deficultie for [     ]. Lastly we receated ane lre (= letter)
from ye erle of roxbrughe shewing his [    ] consent to ha[ve]
ye bussines put to ane end in any way that may subsist in
Law: bot to shew [yewor] willingness if ye think it possible
in this short tyme to get any thing done effeatually (= effectually) in that effair
if ye pleas to send [Wm?] yor clerk to Newtoun the morrow
he will give him his assistance in drawing of the decreitt
arbitrall and he may go from hence to Edr (= Edinburgh) and get Sir
Patrick

Offline nat11911

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Re: 1675 Letter - Can't Decipher 2 Words. Help Please!
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 14 January 18 09:57 GMT (UK) »
Thanks very much GR2. I had this section done to about the same standard as the first section (and for the most part matching yours), but you’ve solved a couple of problems for me (as has Bookbox with another ‘qrin’ & ‘Lre’…)

11. Though ‘done’ seems appropriate, I can’t see that word there…
12. First word ?
13. Defiecultie for ‘shiver’? Lastly, ‘ull’? we ‘receaved’…
14. …shewing his frie [generous]
15-17. OK
18. Thanks for the ‘W[ilia]m’, ‘clerk’ and ‘Newtoun’…
19. And the ‘Edr’…

Thanks - I’ll keep plugging away at it (only another dozen or so lines to perfect/correct).

Chris