Author Topic: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?  (Read 521 times)

Offline ALAMO2008

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Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« on: Saturday 13 January 18 15:43 GMT (UK) »
I have a relative Sgt. Robert Henry Palmer 8983 of 4th Btn Liverpool Kings awarded MM in June 1917 Gazetted 20/07/1917 Home on Leave 21/09/1917 to marry in Birkenhead Registry Office my Granddad's Sister Edith Chapman. Granddad Samuel unable to attend to was getting MM East of Ypres 21st/22nd 1917 on Menin Rd   Robert returned to the Front and was killed only 11 weeks after marriage.
Although Robert Died on the 7th Dec 1917 he probably wasn't necessarily killed then.
As the 4th apparently saw no action in Dec 1917
They were in action Oct/Nov 1917 - Yet Records show he was Killed in Action ?
Anyone any ideas or extra info re 4th action in Dec 17 please ?
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

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Offline jim1

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 13 January 18 17:53 GMT (UK) »
There was one man wounded on the 6th. so may be him & he died of wounds the following day.
They billeted at Potijze & working on laying duckboards going from the support trench called Hamburg & up to the front line trench.
Although no map refs. are given I would think they were working on the trench sector between Crump farm & Gully farm in I.5 & they were billeted in I.4 on the below map. The British trenches are in blue & German in red. The support trench is just behind the front line.
You can see how close they are to the German front line & he may have been hit by a sniper as there were no other men injured that day.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101464903
A later map shows a duckboard running from Dilly farm in I.5 to Oskar farm in I.6.

Edit;
The Brigade diary states that during the month of December 1917 there were 7 men from the KLR wounded but no fatalities. mmmmm.
you have to go back to the 23rd.-24th. Nov. to find any men killed. There were 8 killed & 14 wounded so may have been one of those & died of wounds rather than KIA.
It's a difficult one.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

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Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 13 January 18 19:44 GMT (UK) »
Cheers Jim, most plausible explanation. Alamo
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline jim1

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 13 January 18 20:18 GMT (UK) »
Just to cover all bases earlier the Batt. were in support at an area called Seine (I believe these were names given to captured German pillboxes, they were all named after rivers).
This was of course at the end of the Battle of Passchendaele & the Batt. were at that location.
They were in D.16 on this map over the period they received losses.
http://maps.nls.uk/view/101464909
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 16 January 18 11:05 GMT (UK) »
Cheers Jim,
Info very helpful in filling in his final year of life and what happened around him.

I have a note on his Ancestry record and I don't know where I got it from now.
That he was awarded the MM in the field (Ribbon Only) on 17/06/1917 but I don't know what that means. Anyone any ideas ?
Presume MM was for action he and the 4th saw in the previous weeks but all I can see is per pages 415/416 of the Kings History of 4th action on 20th May and 27th May 1917 is it possible this was the action he gained his MM ?
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline jim1

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 16 January 18 11:19 GMT (UK) »
Ribbons were awarded in the field pretty soon after the event. Medals were awarded post war & as he died he didn't get the medal. Along with the campaign medals his NOK would have to apply for them.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 16 January 18 11:38 GMT (UK) »
Cheers Jim,
That makes sense.
Alamo
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline jim1

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 16 January 18 12:13 GMT (UK) »
98/Bde. diary spells out what the 4/KLR were up to over the latter part of May. Page 149.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lcd/
The last action they were involved in was the attack on Tunnel trench (blue) on the Hindenburg Line.
U.7 on this map
http://maps.nls.uk//view/101723833
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline jim1

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Re: Liverpool Kings Action Dec 1917 ?
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 16 January 18 17:52 GMT (UK) »
An entrance to Tunnel Trench as mentioned in the Bde. diary above.
Courtesy of the GWF.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/