Samoa - Landells and Netzler

[westernwombat]

I would appreciate some help with records of births, etc in Apia, Samoa.

My direct line is to the reverend  William Burns Landells 1814-1871, who emigrated from Alnwick, Northumberland to Melbourne, Victoria, Australia and died in Geelong, Victoria.
One of his  8 children was William George Landells b. 1840 in Sheffield, Yorkshire and d. 1870 in Geelong.
William George Landells married Isabella Baillie in 1863 in Geelong, and he died in 1870 in Geelong.
William James LANDELLS was the second of their 4 sons, and he was born 1866 in Eltham, Victoria (now an outer suburb of Melbourne) and he died in Queensland, Australia in 1954. Parents are named in both records.

Until now, I have negelcted researching this son, and have very poor information to start with.

From various online family trees, mainly MyHeritage and FamilySearch, I have seen William James Landells marriages (3) and children in Apia, Samoa.
Some of these records are totally illogical, in the death of the purported mother before her marriage and before the birth of the child.

These are the 3 marriages I have seen in the online trees -
1898 - in Apia, Upolu, Samoa - to Agnes Phoebe Netzler
1903 - in Apia, Upolu, Samoa - to Henrietta Netzler
1911 - in Apia, Upolu, Samoa - to Marguerite Violet Logan

Agnes Phoebe NETZLER
b. 7 Dec 1879, Samoa 
d.  16 Jul 1901
buried European Cemetery, Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa

Henrietta NETZLER
b. 1 Feb 1856, Samoa
d. 3 Jan 1875 Maalauli, Western Samoa, Samoa

Marguerite Violet LOGAN
b. 16 Jun 1871 Bagot's Well, South Australia, Australia 
d. 5 Apr 1928, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia

For the Australian Births and deaths, I have checked the various registries. But I would appreciate advice on where to get births, deaths, marriages for Samoa.

I should add that there is another Netzler, Henrietta Catherine - born in Samoa much later than the person listed above. And there are 7 children that I have seen connected to LANDELLS or the 3 wives; LOGAN had a marriage to Edward William ROBERTSON and  Agnes Phoebe NETZLER to a KEISEWETTER (no children). Of the 4 children with surname LANDELLS, 3 were born in Samoa and died in Queensland, Australia.

[Ruskie]

Do the online trees give sources for the information?

Have you questioned the tree owners?

(By the way, you said "various online family trees" - just because there are several all saying the same things, don't necessarily believe they are right and you are wrong - often people cut and paste other's trees into their own, including all the errors) 

William James Landell's 1954 Qld death certificate should give the names of his wife/wives and children, if known by the informant.

Margueritte/Margaret's 1928 Qld d/c should give her place of birth and marriage. Index gives her parents as John Logan and Martha Smith, so informant may know other details about her. If she married William in Samoa, that adds some weight to the other information on the online trees, though it does not explain the anomalies you have found regarding ages.

It looks as though Qld certificates can now be downloaded immediately.

Sorry I can't help with Samoan records.

[Ruskie]

Since I posted my reply you have added:

I should add that there is another Netzler, Henrietta Catherine - born in Samoa much later than the person listed above. And there are 7 children that I have seen connected to LANDELLS or the 3 wives; LOGAN had a marriage to Edward William ROBERTSON and  Agnes Phoebe NETZLER to a KEISEWETTER (no children). Of the 4 children with surname LANDELLS, 3 were born in Samoa and died in Queensland, Australia.

It might just be me but I find this a little confusing. I realise that the relationships are fairly complicated but I am finding this a bit tricky to get my head around. 

I'm not sure if it will help anyone who wants to help you, but if you set out the three marriages, with names of children born to each marriage, as well as dates and places of birth and death, it might be a bit easier to follow and see how dates, names and places fit together. 

Added: I think I have just found the tree you refer to on Familysearch. Is this where you got all of your information from?

[westernwombat]

Yes, it is confusing. Sorry.

FindMyPast search shows the earliest marriage as -

Netzler, Phoebe Agnes - event date: 1896-1900  in record set: British Nationals Married Overseas 1818-2005, location: Samoa

The Family Search tree has only one source, "individual or family possessions", and the place of death (no date) is given as Brisbane, Queensland. marriage date given as 1898, Samoa - no source.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LDYX-3CR

However, Queensland BDM has a death record for Oscar Landells -
1984/57814  Oscar Landells  Father: William Landells  Mother:  Phoebe Agnes Netzler

As indicated in a cross post in the Australia section, a slight clarification may be obtained from certificates or images but at this point I am not sure which I want to purchase at $20 to $30 each.

There are 4 Landells children, my source being other Family Search trees. The mother is stated as Henrietta Netzler, but as indicated above for Oscar the evidence is that it was Phoebe Agnes Netzler. Some public trees show Agnes Phoebe Netzler. Place of birth for these children is stated as Apia, Samoa.

So my evidence for the marriage to Henrietta Netzler is poor.

The 1911 marriage to Marguerite Violet Logan is via this Family Search tree -
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LDYX-3LD
which gives the marriage date and place as Samoa.
In that tree, her prior marriage (Robertson) and children are well substantiated by records in South Australia, Victoria, and Queensland.
The 1 child born to Marguerite Violet in Samoa - Faith Salute Landells, b. 1 Apr 1912, d. 18 Jul 1995 in Victoria Point, Queensland is "individual or family possessions". The death certificate for Marguerite Violet Landells may show that, and additional information.


                                                               

[majm]

The 3 marriages of William James Landells and the children -

I have posted on your other thread and now reading this latest post on this thread ... I am becoming confuddled.  Do you have the Qld death rego - it should help you.

Jm

[Ruskie]

Not sure how I feel about "individual or family possessions" as a source, though it may be relevant.

I realise that there is a cost involved but I think in order to clear this up, you should at least buy the d/c of William James Landells .... and hope that the informant was well informed about his marriage/s.

Just over $20 is not too bad cost wise for an instantly downloadable certificate.

Alternatively, contact the tree owner/s who may already have the certificates and be willing to share with you. 

I note that on electoral rolls William is a blacksmith and dairyman of some sort. I'm not sure how much blacksmithing went on in Samoa. 

If I were you I would be curious to find out what the relationship is between the two Netzler women. 

[Ruskie]

The Family Search tree has only one source, "individual or family possessions", and the place of death (no date) is given as Brisbane, Queensland. marriage date given as 1898, Samoa - no source.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LDYX-3CR

I can't see a death for Phoebe Agnes Landells on the Qld Justice site ....

[majm]

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/217162245  Brisbane Tele 20 Dec 1954
LANDELLS,  William James,  Glenrose Road, Red Hill.  (Metropolitan Funerals)


https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/50615893 Courier Mail  20 Dec 1954
LANDELLS  Mr William James,  Glenrosa Road, Red Hill.  Relatives and Friends of Pastor and Mrs Don W*R,  Mr W L*,  Mr H V W*,  Mr and Mrs W.P. M* are respectfully informed of the death of their beloved Father, Father-in-law and Grandfather.  The funeral …. For Mt Thompson Crematorium …  (JM notes  I have not typed up the surnames and I have no knowledge as to if they are still living, but they are listed in the linked newspaper cutting).

For others following this thread, here's the live link to the other current thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=785892.0

JM

[majm]

from my armchair online searchings through free to search websites.

Samoan Baptisms for two with parents as William LANDELLS and …herthe NETZLER.

Isabella Martha LANDELLS, 3 July 1905, Apia, Upolu, Samoa
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGF5-Q84 (not from a submitted tree)

Oscar Frederic William LANDELLS August 1904
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGF5-WB5 (not from a submitted tree.

Death of
Agnes Phoebe LANDELLS  buried 15 July1901.  (born 7 December 1879).
Burial in the European Cemetery, Apia, Tuamasaga, Samoa.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKKS-W913
and photo of the grave
https://billiongraves.com/grave/person/16877219

JM