Birth Registration

[majm]

may I urge you to encourage your friend to desist from thoughts of applying for the cert without the informed consent of the elderly living person.  not only would such application likely infringe personal privacy but also it may be considered as a form of elder abuse.  perhaps a wiser course of action would be to pause, step back and wait to allow the system to work .  better chance the convent records may have clues than the official birth cert if father not on extract why expect to find him on full..

JM

 

[screwlooose]

thx for the replies. Majm my friends mother is still living and lives with her daughter. Everything she, (we), are doing in regards to her family tree is done with her mums full consent. Her mum is supplying all the info we need to follow the tree backwards as it is quite complicated and has a few twists.
I know my friend and she wouldn't be looking if her mum wasn't interested as well. Just as a point of the complexity. My friends father was originally married to my friends grandmothers sister. He was in his 60's when he fathered my friend and died before she was born. Her mother and him were married for 15 yrs trying to have a baby. My friends mum was born in 24 and my friend in 63, so it is an unusual tree. But nothing we do is without mums consent. Unfortunately she never needed any documentation of her birth or marriages, apparently 3 of them. She got rid of all proof of the previous relationship after it ended. So my friend has no photos, letters or anything. She is loving filling in the gaps and finding out things she never knew. I have encouraged her to do as much as she can while her mum is still alive and able to answer questions and prevent brickwalls.
Can I also say thx to judb for all the info from her extract. It has helped with her mums and she will go back to BMD and see what can be found.

[cando]

Thx for that. I believe she has been in contact with the Convent and they directed her to the church but their achavist or whoever can help isnt avail til the end of the month, so she is waiting for that.
The whole Convent thing is another strange set of facts. The family placed Olive in the convent for the birth as she was only 16. After the birth they took the child to raise it but left Olive at the convent. They never lied or hid anything from the child, but left her mother in the convent. It was only when my friends mother got married, she and her husbant went to the convent and, "signed her mother out", and she went to live with her daughter.
Again, all a bit weird. My friend says her grandmother wasnt disabled or had interlectual problems, and yet her family left her at the convent for 20 years after the child was born.
The convent ran a laundrete, so women worked for their food and bed.
Duane

I would suggest that the linked Third Party Application form be completed before approaching the Registry.  I had issues obtaining my own mother's birth certificate in 2008 at which time I held a Enduring Power of Attorney. Her birth certificate was required by a Share Registry as her shares had been purchased in her second given name only and by which she was known.  I'm a bit stunned that the Victorian Registry even discussed or carried out a 1924 birth search.  I was required to forward certified copies of my own birth certificate and marriage certificate along with my passport for identification before any progress could be made.  She was born in 1922 and is now deceased.

Perhaps it my be a good idea to look at some facts and read about the social conditions of the era.  Both's Olive's sisters were married in 1920 so who helped raise Olive's daughter as Ellen Levena GILBERT nee SHEARGOLD appears to be supporting herself from 1919.

Olive may not have given birth at Abbotsford in 1924.

Like many other Good Shepherd institutions around the world, the laundry was an important facet of the operations at Abbotsford. The commercial laundry, known as the Magdalen laundry, provided income for the Sisters, and work for the girls and women in the Sisters' care.

Another section of the Abbotsford Convent was the Magdalen Asylum (built in 1877). Unlike other 'female refuges' of the time, it did not admit pregnant women and their infants. (Catholic women could go to the St Joseph's Receiving Home at Broadmeadows from 1902.) Inmates of the Magdalen Asylum were housed in a building called Sacred Heart. The majority of them worked in the laundry.

Archivist at Good Shepherd Australia New Zealand Provincialate (Good Shepherd Archives)
Address: PO Box 182, Abbotsford VIC 3067

Conditions of Access

All requests for personal information must be accompanied by some form of personal identification such as a copy of your birth certificate or a copy of your current driver's licence. If you are applying for information about another person, their permission is required. If you are applying for information about a person who is deceased, proof of death is required. Proof of your relationship to the deceased person is also required.

According to the 1924 electoral roll Olive Mary GILBERT's b1908 father, Wm Henry GILBERT was not enrolled to vote at the same address as her her mother Ellen Levena.  They appear at the same address in 1919.  Ellen continues to be the only GILBERT enrolled at her address on later rolls.  She had occupations laundress, presser and cleaner.  Have you considered that Ellen was either a widow or Wm Henry has left her and she couldn't support her dau as well.   

Olive May's address on the 1942 electoral roll is Female Refuge, Clarke Street, Abbotsford, laundress.

In 1949 Olive is enrolled to vote living at 20 Alfred Street, St Kilda, home duties and her mother is living at 242 Carlisle Street, St Kilda, cleaner.

Ellen was cremated 9 Apr 1953 and her remains are interred at Fawkner Memorial Park.   She is the only one interred at the location.
http://www.gmct.com.au/deceased-search.aspx

Do the family know where and when Wm Henry GILBERT died?

Cando

[Westward]

My friends mum was born in 24 and my friend in 63, so it is an unusual tree. But nothing we do is without mums consent.

Can I also say thx to judb for all the info from her extract. It has helped with her mums and she will go back to BMD and see what can be found.

Going back to the registry is a great idea - it appears the birth was registered so there should be a record of same - could be spelling errors/name changes/whatever that has made the record not easy to find with a simple search by registry staff. I have found many index errors in Vic, NSW and Qld records - and this is probably the issue with this certificate. good luck with your search

[screwlooose]

Thx again for all the info.
cando in particular, thx for the research you have done in regards to the Convent. As I said, i have no experience with these. I just equate them to workhouses in London in the 1800's.
As I said Olive stayed at the convent until her daughter married and her and her husband took the mum in. Although she did continue to work and support herself. Different times different values.
I will get Pam to talk to her mum about anything she knows about William and family.
I have emailed a link to all the info u have supplied, (and others), so she can have a read and try to make some sense from it.
Duane