Author Topic: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet  (Read 2547 times)

Offline jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 07:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I think you may well have been right about the Soper-Byfleet marriage. Mary marked, perhaps her name was misinterpreted?
Looking at Elizabeth's will, she mentions Jane Soper and Elizabeth Sturt, but she doesn't say they were her daughters. Perhaps she was their stepmother?
Thomas Soper married Elizabeth Davey at Henfield in 1788, and they were both widowed.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-69ZS-WMP?i=342&cat=143272

Also on that image is the Sturt - Soper marriage!
The Soper - Byfleet marriage is on image 314.
John

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Offline jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 09:25 GMT (UK) »
Will of James Broomfield of Isfield, yeoman (written 1763, proved Deanery of South Malling in 1774)
Register copy version
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6L43-3P6?i=327&cat=173636

Names nephew Thomas Siffleet

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Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 09:48 GMT (UK) »
Great - you're way ahead of me now, having just returned to it; I'm struggling to document what I have and keep up now! Thanks again. I still haven't got to those wills, but the 2nd marriage to Elizabeth Davey makes sense, so I have put that into the family structure.

To muddy the waters, I just found this on FreReg:
County    Surrey
Place Byfleet
Church name    St Mary
Register type    Transcript
Burial date    17 May 1780
Burial person forename    Mary
Burial person surname    SOPER
- but this must just be coincidence!

I will let you know when I catch up and work out what's what, and/or with any new findings.

Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 10:10 GMT (UK) »
One of the Henfield parish register microfilms
Burials of the two Thomas Sopers
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-69ZS-4NL?i=254&cat=143272

with Elizabeth's burial on previous image (faint images!)

Before I get to the wills - still tidying up dates and records - a quick question about these...
I see Elizabeth's - 23 Dec 1790.
Then Thomas 8 Jan 1795 and the other one 21 July 1796, but it's a bit difficult to read what comes after each name. Judging by the first letters of the words, I think the first could be Sen. and the second Junr.??
Mel

Offline jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 10:13 GMT (UK) »
Another will (sorry!)
Will of Mary Dutnell (Durtnall) of Lewes, The Beechwood, St John under the Castle, widow
written 1767, proved 1776, Archdeaconry of Lewes.
Could be an important one? Quick look, names brother/nephew Thomas Siffleet (and more of them, even Mary Soper!!)
two pages of it here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D189-XV2?i=614&cat=685691

This was after a trail back via The Keep
13 Dec 1806
Letters of Administration of the goods of Elizabeth Killingbeck left unadministered by Mary Killingbeck granted to Josiah Siffleet of Hamsey, gardener, cousin germain and next of kin of said Elizabeth.

There is more related stuff from the same source on The Keep website.
Anyway, it all starts (I think!) with a marriage
27 Feb 1714/5, apparently at Maresfield
Thomas Killingbeck + Mary Siffleet

It was by licence (Deanery of South Malling)
The marriage licence register says both of Chiltington
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DT69-KB5?i=1152&cat=604182

Thomas and Mary had a (only?) daughter Elizabeth. Who may have been baptized as an adult? Elizabeth must have died circa 1753, because
4 May 1753
Letters of Administration granted out of the Archdeaconry Court of Lewes to Mary Killingbeck, mother of Elizabeth Killingbeck late of Beechwood, deceased, of the estate of the said Elizabeth

The widowed mother Mary then married again
10 May 1753
Assignment for 100 by Mary Killingbeck, widow, with concurrence of Thomas Dutnell, to William Michell of Lewes, gent, in consideration of intended marriage betwen said Mary and Thomas.

Family Search has the marriage, Thomas Dutnell + Mary Killingbeck, 24 May 1753, Rodmell.

All those years later Josiah administers the estate of Elizabeth. Is he the Josiah you found who was buried in 1832 age 79?
John

Offline jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Then Thomas 8 Jan 1795 and the other one 21 July 1796, but it's a bit difficult to read what comes after each name. Judging by the first letters of the words, I think the first could be Sen. and the second Junr.??

Hi
Yes, that is how I read it. Senior and junior, sadly going in quick succession. With Elizabeth, 1794, being the wife of Thomas senior.
John

Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 10:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Yes, that is how I read it. Senior and junior, sadly going in quick succession. With Elizabeth, 1794, being the wife of Thomas senior.
John

Hi again, and for the last time tonight I fear - I need to take a break and will only be getting back to this in small bites over the next few days, I think.
I wrote 1790 in error for Elizabeth (seeing the 1794 as a 1, I think) - but your note above caused me to look again and I think it's Dec 1793.
Until next time - many thanks again. I will start looking at the wills tomorrow.  :)
Mel
p.s. I meant to add too that I keep getting distracted by other familiar names I spot in the registers, seen as witnesses or somewhere in my searches - Vinall, Nye, Woolven and others!

Offline jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 10:46 GMT (UK) »
Yes, 1793, sorry. Thinking of the probate!
We certainly have enough wills for the time being!
John

Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 25 January 18 10:53 GMT (UK) »
I've had a couple of stabs at sorting out the relationships in the will (still to return to the basic connection with where Mary and brother Thomas fit in the Siffleet family, amongst other things) and will be busy on documenting them all for a while still over the next couple of days - but wonder if you could advise on how to read the sentence attached, about Josias? I'm not sure whether or where a comma might fall - i.e. is Josias the eldest son of John Siffleet, eldest brother of said nephew Thomas, or eldest son of John Siffleet and also the eldest brother of said nephew Thomas?  ???

I have two Josiahs so far:
Josiah 1796-1843 (son of Thomas the nephew) and Josiah 1753-1832, who is a brother of Thomas the testator/landowner. 
And don't know if Josias is interchangeable with Josiah? The only Josias I can see on FS is in Brighton, marries Sarah Jones in 1791; a Josiah marries Susanna Bannister in Brighton in 1779.

I won't complete this tonight - will finish working through it tomorrow.