Author Topic: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet  (Read 3108 times)

Online jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #45 on: Saturday 27 January 18 19:16 GMT (UK) »
1819
Jemima Siffleet

A big surprise, to me at any rate, here it is!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D159-RN5?i=638&cat=685691

Relationship to Jemima of the administrators - could be important?

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Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 28 January 18 01:21 GMT (UK) »
A big surprise, to me at any rate, here it is!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D159-RN5?i=638&cat=685691
Relationship to Jemima of the administrators - could be important?

Starting with your most recent post, because it's brief...

This is strange - seems to suggest that Jemima is sister of Michael and Thomas the nephews of Thomas the landowner, rather than daughter of a James who is brother of Thomas the landowner, as suggested in his will (I think)? I'm confused. Will have to come back to this one! (Still busy checking through those earlier documents, before I get to the latest you've just posted - thanks! - and not much time today either.)

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Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #47 on: Monday 29 January 18 06:05 GMT (UK) »
Whew! I think (hope) that I have now gone through all of those wills and documents and constructed relationships and made notes as appropriate. Still a few minor questions, but they are noted and that will do for now.

I should mention that some way back on this thread, I confused the names Durrant and Dutnell. Durrant is the main name in my family line (Sarah, wife of John Siffleet) - Dutnell was only the name of Mary's second husband, so I'm not going to bother further with them.

Thank you very much for all of your help, suggestions and guidance on this one, John - you have helped me not only to build this tree but also in finding more of the source documents in future, and those transcriptions of useful documents on The Keep.

I should probably let this thread die (or only add anything related to the various Sopers or Siffleets already mentioned) and after a final tidy-up and a break, start on one of the other lines - plenty on the Killingbecks, so may leave them for later, but I also want to see if I can work out the Broomfield and Durrant lines. I will post a new thread if I get stuck with one of them!

And thanks again to Barbara for helping to decipher the first will and relationships. There are still Willys and Ganseys I haven't constructed - Elizabeth Willy the niece must have been the daughter of one of original Thomas' brothers who married a Willy (possibly misspelt) - but I am not going to worry about them any further at the moment.

Online jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #48 on: Monday 29 January 18 08:47 GMT (UK) »
I confused the names Durrant and Dutnell.
So did I!

Before we let the thread go, one extra thing.
We know that some of the main places we are interested in - Chailey, Isfield, Newick - have not been filmed by the LDS. Although we seem to be OK with marriages and burials (transcription wise), we don't have baptisms.
I really do hope there are some, but I have thought all along that maybe the Siffleets were nonconformists (at least for a time).

Someone on rootschat was looking for the will of James Broomfield a few years ago. They got some burial info from one of our contributors
A 75 year old James Broomffield who was an anabaptist teacher from Chailey, was buried at All Saints, Waldron, Sussex, 7 March 1774. (info SFHG Members burial list website)

So that set me off looking into Baptists in Sussex. The main centre of activity seemed to be Ditchling. And some records have been put online
https://www.unitarian.org.uk/resources/document-library/records-general-baptist-meeting-house-now-unitarian-ditchling-sussex

There is a pdf document there. Consisting of three volumes. It's the first one that is useful for Siffleets.
There is a general index to the first volume, starting on page 162 (which is page 88 of the pdf, about halfway down) and on page 161 are abbreviations used in the index.
Siffleets are indexed on page 171 of volume one.
It is a bit fuzzy, but never mind. Most of the numbers in the index refer to the pages immediately above, List of Baptisms and of others admitted to Church Membership/into Church Communion (which are given numbers 1-494, and starting on page 150). These will be adults.
m = married to (who, but not when they married)

p = page  number in the volume
i.e. James Siffleet p7
and if we go back to page 7 of volume 1 we see mention of James Sifleet being admonished.

We see familiar names here, Soper/Soaper, Broomfield
It also helps with the mystery of Detemia Gansey - a search on FamilySearch for the name Detemia, "any place" Sussex brings up what may be her burial. Even better is looking for Ditemia, which it says in the original, because FamilySearch have indexed the surname three times in different ways.

A mystery burial? At Westmeston, 20 Oct 1765
Thomas Ciphlet senex (old man) Anabaptist
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-69HW-9RK?i=54&cat=245147
Good luck
John

Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #49 on: Monday 29 January 18 09:49 GMT (UK) »
Ah - well that's very interesting, and I will of course have a closer look at the Siffleets as well as other names on there. There are a few others which have cropped up before in the tree or my searches too - Parsons, Beadle, Hollingdale, etc. - in the PDF and on the page you linked to.

And actually, after posting my previous post, I immediately realised that I do still want to make an attempt at going further up the tree, beyond Thomas the speculative granddaddy (possible husband of Sarah Broomfield) - so I will come back to these.

That burial of Thomas Ciphlet - I wonder if he could be this granddaddy? His sister Mary Dutnell's will was written a couple of years after the burial date, and she does say he's dead.

I also realised that the Killingbecks are only related to aunt Mary Dutnell (Siffleet) - so actually not going to rush into doing too much work on them in the near future.

And thanks for the tip about Detemia - I will check her out. Once I've sighted and worked on a few more facts and relationships, I'll update you when I think I've got to the end of the Siffleets (at least to my satisfaction - I know it's almost never-ending, really!).

Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 11:44 GMT (UK) »
Just to finish off this thread - I just wanted to report back that thanks to a lot of help from John, I have managed to extract a lot of information and construct relationships amongst the Siffleets, back to a Thomas Sr (c.1695), and several Bro(o)mfields, so I think that this thread can be marked as completed at this point.

I did find the Detemia Gansey burial, but couldn't easily find the link to the Siffleets, so giving up on that one, at least for now. Ditto Elizabeth Willy, although I think that she must be an unnamed daughter of either James or John. (I have just had another quick look and did find a possible death record in London - WILLY, ELIZABETH    74, GRO Reference: 1844  J Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01  Page 161 - but can't spot any obvious links to children or husband so will just keep her details noted on my scratchpad for another day.)

Thanks again, Barbara and John, for helping me with this.

Online jonw65

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #51 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 11:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mel
Turns out Detemia's marriage wasn't in Sussex
Matthias Gande + Dittymir Siffleet
11 May 1790, St George the Martyr, Southwark

Is on ancestry.
John

Offline Barbara F

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #52 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 12:04 GMT (UK) »
Well done and sorry I had to bow out of the research!

Barbara
Joy, Larkin, Twort, Baker, Whibley - Brenchley and Horsmonden area Kent
Fewell and Speller - Essex and London
Headington and Bateman - London
Feltwell - Norfolk and London
Lewin - India and NZ
Evan-Thomas - Wales and London
Purser and Cook - Hunts

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Offline lucymags

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Re: Brainteaser trying to work out relationships from a will - Siffleet
« Reply #53 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Mel
Turns out Detemia's marriage wasn't in Sussex
Matthias Gande + Dittymir Siffleet
11 May 1790, St George the Martyr, Southwark

Is on ancestry.
John

Yet another variation on the spelling! Thanks for that, John - I'll add it to my notes.

Barbara, your clear analysis and setting out of the relationships in the original will were very helpful in providing the basis for further investigation.

All in all a very fruitful investigation!
 :)
Mel