Author Topic: Roberts Penrhyn  (Read 9797 times)

Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 30 January 18 14:37 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Have got some info incl.  Monument Inscriptions for the two missing children who were born and died between Censuses and obituary of Gwennie, died 1915 aged 13, Robert John Roberts in 1911 Census, Family Trees and David Roberts' return from USA.
Griffin family appears to be correct - think you've gone astray on the 2nd marriage business.
If you send me your e-mail address by Personal Message I can send info re 1911 Census.
Have to go out now, and will be out running tonight if the weather holds. Will send more details, but probably not till tomorrow.
Emyr

Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 04 February 18 11:50 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Received your PM with e-mail address; also confirmation that you've received the e-mail I sent you thro' Ancestry with link to 1911 Census. Have sent this morning link to Sarah J Roberts at Adwyddu, 1911 Census.
You've referred to a second wedding for Sarah J, and in your e-mail you say that's come from a Public Family Tree (Elizabeth Earle). It's obviously wrong as Sarah and David Roberts are still together in 1939 Census. The 1871 Census info is also wrong, residence Llandanwg. The family are at Cae-fali, outside Penrhyn on the Maentwrog road, pa. Llandecwyn. I hadn't realised until recently that part of that parish extended to the North side of the Dwyryd. Age of Jane 7 months  - DOB 1939 Census 23/08/1870. I've sent message to Elizabeth Earle, have not as yet received reply.
Info on following Censuses to follow.
Can't find David Roberts 1911 Censuses, but in Welsh newspaper, Gwalia, 28/11/1910, it's reported that :  On Saturday night, Mr Robert Richards, Noddfa, and Mr David Roberts, The Smithy, Adwy Ddu, returned from America. I don't know whether or not  Robert is Sarah's brother, born c.1869 (1871 Census age 2). It's possible that David, or both, had returned to America before 1911 Census.
Both 'Y Genedl' and 'Y Dinesydd Cymreig' report the death of Gwennie, daughter of Mr & Mrs D Roberts, Adwyddu, in Dec 1914 - paper dated 29/12/1914 says she died Thursday morning.
Sarah J was a servant in Toxteth Park, Lancashire in 1891 Census.
Found the deaths of the 2 missing children, but mislaid the info. Will turn up!
Further info to follow.
Emyr
   

Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 04 February 18 14:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Monumemt Inscriptions from 2 graves Eglwys y Drindod Sactaidd/Holy Trinity Church, Penrhyndeudraeth - in Welsh.
E008.  In memory of Gwen, dear child of David & Sarah Roberts, Griffin Terrace. Died 19th April 1900 aged 6 months.Also Gwilym J Roberts, who died 16th January 1906, a year old.

Births Dec 1899   (>99%)
Roberts    Gwen Jones        Festiniog    11b   343

Deaths Jun 1900   (>99%)
Roberts    Gwen Jones    0    Festiniog    11b   280

Births Mar 1905   (>99%)
Roberts    Gwilym John        Festiniog    11b   357

Deaths Mar 1906   (>99%)
Roberts    Gwilym John    1    Festiniog    11b   268


E153.  In loving memory of Gwen J Roberts, dear daughter of of David and S J Roberts, Adwy Ddu, born 25th November 1901, died 23d December 1914.

Deaths Dec 1914   (>99%)
Roberts    Gwen J    13    Festiniog    11b   480

Penrhyndeudraeth Parish Register (On Find my Past):
Gwen Jones Roberts    Adwy ddu, Penrhyndeudraeth   Burial Dec 28th 1914  Age 13yrs.
(the other burials might be there as well).

Can't find Baptism on Free BMD
This might be the North Wales BMD entry -  Gwen and Winifred are the same.
North Wales BMD only gives the year:
ROBERTS   Winifred       Ffestiniog   Gwynedd (Caernarfon)   ARDB1/48/E291
The reference indicates that it is in the correct Sub-registration dist. i.e. Deudraeth.
Emyr




Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 22 February 18 19:10 GMT (UK) »
Hi
David Roberts' family from 1871 Census onwards:
1871 at Ty'n y Bryn, Talsarnau, Llanfihangel y Traethau, Merionethshire. Robert Robert  32  Stone Mason  Merionethshire. Wife & children born LL y Tr,  Jane 34,  Jane  9,  Robert  6.
1881 Census:  Jane(Widow - Grocer) 43, Jane  19 (Dressmaker) , Robert(Quarryman)  16,  David  9,  Elizabeth  7. All born Talsarnau.
Llanfair juxta Harlech Parish Register Robert Roberts, Talsarnau , buried April 24th 1876 age 37yrs.

1891 Census:  Village of Talsarnau.  Jane 53, Elizabeth 17 (Dressmaker),  both  Ll. y Tr., Lilian Mauris Kendrick(?) 6, no relation given, born Portmadoc. Haven't found David.
1901 Census:   2 Rhyw St (?) Talsarnau, Jane 63, Annie C(?) Roberts, grand daughter, 12 , born Blaenau Ffestiniog.
Also 1901 Census:  David/Sarah Jane Roberts  + family at Griffin Terrace, Penrhyndeudraeth.
1911 Census:  Jane, 73.  at Ty'n y Bryn, Talsarnau on her own.
Jane died May 30, 1928, aged 90, and buried with husband.Parish Records on Find my Past only to 1927.

M.I. from GFHS M370,  306 :
Er cof am Robert Roberts annwyl briod Jane Roberts, Ty'n y Bryn, Talsarnau, yr hwn a fu farw Ebrill  22, 1876 yn 37 ml oed. Hefyd ei annwyl briod Jane Roberts, a fu farw Mai 30, 1928 yn 90 ml. oed.
 Sending this without checking, have to be in a meeting in 20 minutes !
Emyr
 


Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #13 on: Friday 02 March 18 16:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Sarah Jane Richards' family:
1871 Census  at Cae Valy Gate, Llandecwyn (Cae Fali - about mile outside Penrhyn on Maentwrog road)
Evan 24 Quarryman b. Trawsfynydd; Jane 30 b. Penmorfa, Caernarvonshire; Robert 2 b. Portmadoc, Caerns.; Sarah J  7 months b. Llandecwyn;
1881 Census  High St., Penrhyndeudraeth , Llanfihangel y Traethau,  Evan  35, Grocer;  Jane 38 ; Robert  12  b. Ll y Tr. (differs from 1871);  Sarah J  11 ; Ellen  9;  Anne  7;  Elizabeth  4, all Ll y Tr.
1891 Census High St, PDD, Evan  44 Widower; Anne  19;  Ellen  17;  Elizabeth  14 (the 3 born Llandecwyn !)      Jane died Q1 1890  age 48   Fest.  11b 326 ?   Buried Penmorfa (M.I. in Welsh):  In loving memory of Jane,dear wife of Evan Richards, ** CLOTH HALL**, Penrhyndeudraeth, died  Feb. 23d 1890 aged 48
Evan remarries Q3 1893, Machynlleth, Mont. Reg. Dist. 11b 246, with Annie Jones. Son David Hesketh Richards born,  Fest., Deudraeth Q3 1894  11b 367.
1891 Census, Toxteth Park, Lancashire ? age slightly low,  Sarah J Richards, Servant, Single 19, b. Penrhyndeudraeth.
Marriage Fest. 11b 583  Q3 1893  David Roberts/Sarah J Richards.
1901 Census at High St., Penrhyn, Evan 56, Flour Merchant; Annie  46 Machynlleth;  David H Richards 6  Penrhyn.  Still there 1911 - no more children.
Annie died 02/02/1918  age 61, address, Heulwen, Penhyndeudraeth; Evan 27/05/1924 aged 78; D Hesketh Richards, 16/01/1944, aged 49. Buried together in Minffordd Cemetery.
David Hesketh Richards military records:
As at 25/11/1913 : Age 19yrs 6 months, born Minffordd, Penrhyndeudraeth, addres: 66 Vandyke(?) St, Lodge Lane, Liverpool (?); had been member of Officer Training Corp, University of Wales Contingent; served in 1st West Lancs, Field Ambulance RAMC ; discharged 20/01/1915 to continue medical studies, next of kin Mr E Richards, Gwynfryn, Penrhos, Aberdovey.
Welsh newspaper report August 1914 under PENRHYNDEUDRAETH, congratulates him for passing his first exams towards degrees of MRCS, LRCP and LM. Says that he is formerly of **CLOTH HALL**, Penrhyn, but now of Aberdovey.  In 1916 he .......he was elected a Fellow of the University of Liverpool, having obtained the Robert Gee Fellowship in anatomy.
At time of death he lived at Liverpool, and died in the Royal Infirmary. Probate was granted 10/07/1944 to Sarah Jane Roberts (wife of David Roberts), but she died Sept 10th and a further grant of probate 22/02/1945 to Idris Wyn Richards, grocer.

Emyr

   
   

Offline Garmor

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 06 March 18 18:24 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I would like to thank everybody especially Mandy for initial message and also thank everybody else for their input into my family history. As you can see I'm now rootschat member finally!
My great grandparents are David & Sarah J Roberts which had 10 children which by 1911 2 of the children had died. Has previously posted Gwen died young at the age of 13, I have been to her grave and unfortunately the grave stone is unreadable and due to the size of the stone I don't think anybody else is buried with her. On a previous post Emyr you have mentioned a Gwylim J Roberts as another member of the Roberts family can you give me more info on grave locatio etc.
Thank you,
Gareth

Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 06 March 18 23:26 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Same grave as Gwen died 1900. E008 Holy Trinity Church, Penrhyndeudraeth. My info is from the Gwynedd Family History Society publications. See Reply #11. There are errors, as one would expect, in these publications. Haven't visited the graves to check the info; will do so sometime.
Adwy Ddu Smithy is on the main road thro' Penrhyn, next door to Deudraeth Garage showroom, Minffordd side. There is a slate plaque with the name on the building.
Emyr
 

Offline Garmor

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 07 March 18 16:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi, I have just checked cymdeithas teuluoedd gwynedd M374 and think the entry E008 is the wrong person, to confirm this Gwen J Roberts appears on the 1911 census aged 9.
I think entry E153 is the right person and no other name appears on that entry(as you have posted #11)

Gareth

Offline EmyrBorth

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Re: Roberts Penrhyn
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 08 March 18 13:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Visited Penmorfa, Minffordd and Penrhyn cemeteries yesterday afternoon. Penmorfa and Minffordd relevant info correctly transcribed.
Penrhyn E008 correct except for 'J' ommitted in 'Sarah J Roberts. Gwen died 1900 age 6 months and Gwilym J died 1906 aged 1 year. This agrees with the Free BMD entries for birth and death I've quoted. According to 1911 Census, they've lost 2 children.
Penrhyn E153 poses a problem. It's a double size plot with slate curbing round it. In the plot there's a slanted plinth to which is attached a medallion shaped stone. There seems to have been something written on it. This stone is too small to have contained the info in M374 on it. Sometimes inscriptions are on the curbing, but this is covered with ivy. I cleared a small bit with difficulty, then gave up as I had a train to catch. There is a notice saying that part of the cemetery is kept as a wild flower garden, so I  won't clear the grave without permission from the Church authorities.
Free BMD records the death of a Gwen J Roberts in Q4 1914 age 13. The Parish Burial Register agrees with this, burial 28th Dec. So it appears that there were 2 children named Gwen. The first died April 1900 and the second Gwen was born 25th Nov 1901 and died 1914 so was alive at time of 1911 Census.
Emyr