Author Topic: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South  (Read 1250 times)

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #18 on: Monday 22 January 18 16:09 GMT (UK) »
Ruslan's reply #8 and my reply #14 confused the later Flemish immigrants with Huguenots.
Correction: Huguenots were Protestants from France, not from Flanders. Huguenots were skilled in silk weaving. ( Silk and linen weaving were also carried on in Lancashire.)

Other towns where the Flemish weavers of 14thC settled were Manchester and Bury. There were probably others. Blackburn had been a textile producing area since Middle Ages, wool being woven at home. There's a painting of Queen Philippa and the Flemish weavers of Manchester.
1331 King Edward the Third invited John Kempe of Flanders "weaver of woollen cloths" to enter England "with his men" and carry on his trade and "teach it freely".
See: John Kempe and Friends - Flemish Weavers in Edward 111's England https://www.englandsimmigrants.com/page/individual-studies/john-kempe-and-friends
The Domesday Book Online
domesdaybook.co.uk/lancashire2.html

There was something about the Weavers' Guild of London and their reaction to the Flemish weavers and subsequent immigrants.  Towns had craft guilds too . Their members would have had something to say as well.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online mowsehowse

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 990
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #19 on: Monday 22 January 18 16:24 GMT (UK) »
I can't find any mention of cotton weaving in England before 1641.

As far as I recall England had an enormous home grown wool economy during the Middle Ages, including spinning and weaving of cloth, but all cotton would have to be imported, and I think that only sprang from Colonial and Empire countries later on.
 
Though I'm happy to be corrected.
Rowse in Brixham, Tenby, Hull & Ramsgate. Strongman, in Falmouth. Champion. Coke. Eame/s. Gibbons. Passmore. Pulsever. Sparkes in Brixham & Ramsgate. Toms in Cornwall. Waymoth. Wyatt.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #20 on: Monday 22 January 18 16:39 GMT (UK) »
Thanks again for the info appreciate, really good stuff and very helpful !!!
Did Flemish of first (1300s) or second (1500-1600s) waves of immigration
have their own settlements or they lived among locals. Like here where I live
in Ohio we have German Villages here and there...I wonder if something like that
was in Bolton areas.
Would it not depend on size of the town at the time and number of immigrant craftspeople? Suggest best sources for that information would be local history society and library and archives for each town.
There's a Huguenot family history society. I assume each group of immigrant weavers followed a similar pattern. There might be a Flemish FHS.
There may be a Weavers' Guild archive.

Offline sugarbakers

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
    • View Profile
    • Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #21 on: Monday 22 January 18 19:17 GMT (UK) »
R ... I've been following this thread with interest, and you really have been given some very good advice, but I don't think there is an easy way of obtaining the information that you are seeking.

For the last 20 years I've been researching those who worked in the UK sugar refining industry, and I've built up a mass of information regarding the local workers, the migrant workers and the cities/towns where they lived and worked. There are similarities between the two industries ... local money, migrant skills, local and migrant labour, imported (slave trade) raw materials, early beginnings (sugar mid-1500s), 1800s peak, 1900s decline ... and I feel that there would also be a similarity in the research needed.

For sugar refining there was no trade body, no livery company. Company records and employee records have been destroyed. So my information has come from a huge number of general sources ... church/parish registers, censuses, trade directories, ships/migration lists, wills and probate calendars, burgess records, apprentice records, newspapers/periodicals, insurance records, books, archaeological reports, parliamentary records, local archives, family histories, etc ... and other folks' research and good will.

If the statistics are not available you may have to set about providing them yourself ... hard work but very rewarding. Good luck.
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen).

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.mawer.clara.net ...
42,000+ database entries, 240+ fatalities, 210+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 300+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 23 January 18 00:09 GMT (UK) »
I can't find any mention of cotton weaving in England before 1641.

As far as I recall England had an enormous home grown wool economy during the Middle Ages, including spinning and weaving of cloth, but all cotton would have to be imported, and I think that only sprang from Colonial and Empire countries later on.
 
Though I'm happy to be corrected.
Cotton was first imported to England in 16th century. Early products were a mix of cotton and linen or worsted yarn.
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It doesn't cite a primary source.
Cotton was mentioned in the will of Adam Pendlebury 1608 (A Brief History of Bolton Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society)

Offline Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 23 January 18 00:24 GMT (UK) »
For more on mills obtaining children from workhouses see The Textile System on Spartacus Educational website. e.g. Watson's mill at Penny Dam near Preston got pauper children from a workhouse in Southwark (London).
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It was mainly mills in rural areas which relied on importing pauper apprentices. Factory owners were paid 4 or 5 for each child they took.
Salmesbury mills north of Preston had large numbers of them. They wore yellow uniform so that if they ran away they would be easily seen.

Offline RuslanPashayev

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 207
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 23 January 18 01:23 GMT (UK) »
Dear Friends,
thanks so much for all the input and feedback and the info !!!
Appreciate a lot !!!
All the info is very helpful and helps to see the bigger picture and better understanding.
My deepest and sincere appreciation.
Kind regards,
R.

Online mowsehowse

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 990
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 23 January 18 09:55 GMT (UK) »
For more on mills obtaining children from workhouses see The Textile System on Spartacus Educational website. e.g. Watson's mill at Penny Dam near Preston got pauper children from a workhouse in Southwark (London).
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It was mainly mills in rural areas which relied on importing pauper apprentices. Factory owners were paid 4 or 5 for each child they took.
Salmesbury mills north of Preston had large numbers of them. They wore yellow uniform so that if they ran away they would be easily seen.

Great work Maiden Stone.

Dressing them in yellow in case they ran away - speaks volumes. :'(

There was a tale, never verified, that someone for whom I was researching, had a grandfather who had been sent from a Barnardo home in London to the south coast as a fisher apprentice, while the sister had been put into a nursing school and brother had been "given" to the GPO.  As I say, never verified, but the concept of taking children out of orphanages in London, and sending them off somewhere for employment is there.
Rowse in Brixham, Tenby, Hull & Ramsgate. Strongman, in Falmouth. Champion. Coke. Eame/s. Gibbons. Passmore. Pulsever. Sparkes in Brixham & Ramsgate. Toms in Cornwall. Waymoth. Wyatt.

Online mowsehowse

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 990
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Cotton Industry of Greater Manchester - Migrants from the South
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 23 January 18 10:06 GMT (UK) »
I can't find any mention of cotton weaving in England before 1641.

As far as I recall England had an enormous home grown wool economy during the Middle Ages, including spinning and weaving of cloth, but all cotton would have to be imported, and I think that only sprang from Colonial and Empire countries later on.
 
Though I'm happy to be corrected.
Cotton was first imported to England in 16th century. Early products were a mix of cotton and linen or worsted yarn.
www.spartacus-educational.com/Textiles.htm
It doesn't cite a primary source.
Cotton was mentioned in the will of Adam Pendlebury 1608 (A Brief History of Bolton Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society)

Interesting.
When you quote the import of cotton, does it state if they are talking about importing bolls for spinning and weaving, or spun cloth/fabric? 

I saw a brief clip on TV yesterday showing how wooden bobbins/reels for cotton thread were manufactured, but they glibly threw "cotton" into the conversation when they should have been making the difference between the raw product, or spun thread to be used for for sewing, or bolts of cloth.

I was thinking that probably England didn't import much from USA or India before colonisation/Empire, but of course Eygypt was weaving fine cotton cloth. Probably other countries on trading routes as well.
Rowse in Brixham, Tenby, Hull & Ramsgate. Strongman, in Falmouth. Champion. Coke. Eame/s. Gibbons. Passmore. Pulsever. Sparkes in Brixham & Ramsgate. Toms in Cornwall. Waymoth. Wyatt.