Marriage Banns of Nov / Dec 1859 ?

[Brickwall Demolisher]

Hi everyone, thanks for looking,
  My query is regarding banns that have recently been found of ALBERT WENTZELL b1839 / CHARLOTTE SADLER b1836 that were issued on 27/11/1859,
4/12/1859 and 11/12/1859 at All Saints, Poplar. Would / Do the banns hold any further or more info than that of what is above?
                       Thanks  Regards JUST J

[rosie99]

They state that they were both of the parish -he was a bachelor she was a spinster

[Ladyhawk]

Posting as similar names  although different date  Banns

are these the same persons mentioned?

Albert Godlip Wentzell   
Record Type:   Banns (Bann)
Marriage Banns Date:   23 Jul 1871 St Mary, Newington, Southwark, England
Spouse:   Charlotte Saddler
Register Type:   Parish Register

Married 31st July , Both f/a, both single, his father James, both occ engineers
Her father Joseph, carpenter

1851 c Albert age 12 born Hackney with parents and siblings, father James engineer
HO107; Piece: 1573; Folio: 371; Page: 59

ADDED For info

Charlotte Wentzell is on her own with two children Harry & Alfred in 1861
 RG 9; Piece: 321; Folio: 119; Page: 3

WENTZELL, ALFRED   mn SADLER     
 1857  J Quarter in WIRRAL  Volume 08A  Page 430

[BumbleB]

My theory is that the 1859 marriage did not take place.  Using FreeBMD and searching December quarter 1859-June quarter 1860, there are no marriage entries for Albert and Charlotte.

[PaulineJ]

It's been comprehensively covered on another post.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784930.msg6413536#msg6413536

[Brickwall Demolisher]

Hi everyone, thanks for looking,
  My query is regarding banns that have recently been found of ALBERT WENTZELL b1839 / CHARLOTTE SADLER b1836 that were issued on 27/11/1859,
4/12/1859 and 11/12/1859 at All Saints, Poplar. Would / Do the banns hold any further or more info than that of what is above?
                       Thanks  Regards JUST J

Hi many thanks to all,
   I may seem to be to persistent in what I am asking on the above.The banns of 1859.
 As with family history we all perhaps seem to be progressing quite well and then appears a slight stumbling block that within ourselves we must find the reason and the answer to.
   I am specifically in and at present doing a timeline scenario on my SADLER's / WENTZELL's between 1840 to 1880's plus. It's now become under a family discussion and we are trying to find anything of why CHARLOTTE SADLER b1836 was in LIVERPOOL giving birth to 2 boy's between 1854 ? ( HARRY WENTZELL / SADLER. No b.c found ) and 1857 ( ALFRED WENTZELL / SADLER b.c JUNE Qtr 1857 ) when at no other time does she seem to venture outside the London / Surrey / Kent area through the rest of her life.
 1851 Census shows family without father JOSEPH who has died JUNE Qtr 1850
JANE  Mother is now Head of household. Between 1851 and 1861 the family have split. ......   Mother JANE dies Sept Qtr 1854
 1861 Census. CHARLOTTE and her younger sister, ELLEN, have  left. Before the above banns showed we only had the birthplace of the 2 boys to go by which was LIVERPOOL. Banns now found ALBERT with CHARLOTTE in Poplar 1859. 
  Census of 1861
 CHARLOTTE WENTZELL with the 2 boys West St,Bermondsey
    RG09 / 321
 ALBERT WENTZELL aboard S.S MOSELLE.

I was hoping for the address of where they were living, and any information regarding if there were witnesses present when the banns were initially presented. At least I have found them somewhere in between 1851 & 1861. It seems to be quite a stretch from Nov 1859 to 1871 when they marry. CHARLOTTE dies 1872. ALBERT is then continually on the censuses until 1911 as PAUPER in various WORKHOUSES until his death in 1916.
 
ELLEN SADLER moves on to marry in 1867.
Many thanks everyone. JUST J



   

[heywood]

Hello,

Do you have Alfred’s birth record? Sorry, if I have missed it.
What is the name and occupation of his father?

Heywood

[BumbleB]

Something very strange about the book of Banns supposedly for All Saints, Poplar.  Also I cannot find a front page to verify the church.

I've just randomly picked two sets of Banns, both in December 1837, so after the commencement of civil registration:

William Bryant and Charlotte Baker - no evidence via FreeBMD
Andrew Ginn and Sarah Murrell - no evidence via FreeBMD

1856
William Cornelius Warne and Mary Ann Davis - no evidence via FreeBMD

There are hand-written pages at the end, rather than the printed pages:

William Adam Simpson and Ellen Farnell - 1861 - marriage in Poplar Registration District - and the marriage entry image is available 

[Brickwall Demolisher]

Hello,

Do you have Alfred’s birth record? Sorry, if I have missed it.
What is the name and occupation of his father?

Heywood

Hi Heywood,

As we have not yet come across HARRY WENTZELL b1854? b.c  but on ALFRED's we do have a JAMES WENTZELL Engineer.
  This is where confusion is and if possible find out where / why CHARLOTTE SADLER was doing in LIVERPOOL between 1854 / 1857??
   We have two JAMES WENTZELL's at the time, one senior b 1816, who was christened JOHN JAMES. Sometime earlier he switched his christian name's around for whatever reason?.  The other JAMES is actually JAMES JOHN son born 1839, JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL born St. LUKE'S. STEPNEY.
  JAMES JOHN is widowed Mar 1855 Chelsea, wife MARIA,  ..... JOURNEYMAN MARINE ENGINEER is I believe his occupation at this time.
     JAMES JOHN dies Sept 1863.   Croydon
  JAMES THOMAS, ENGINEER enlists Army Nov 1857 has a 20+ year stint in 20th  Hussars mainly in India, discharged 1878 / 1879 for Health reasons.
   Not once has a JAMES WENTZELL been entered on the census with CHARLOTTE only ALBERT.
    CHARLOTTE & ALBERT do not have any more children.
JAMES JOHN has died 1863 ..... JAMES THOMAS has 20 yr Army career as ENGINEER / FARRIER
     CHARLOTTE WENTZELL ( SADLER ) has died in Sept 1882.
 
So for ALBERT  now is he Stepfather ?? or is he Stepbrother ??
 
After CHARLOTTE WENTZELL ( SADLER ) has died he seems to be totally discarded by the family in the area he was living. Left and unable to support himself, goes into WORKHOUSE living and dies in one in 1916.
   Bearing this in mind what children would do this to their father, and will we ever find out which JAMES ?? Word passing down that CHARLOTTE WENTZELL ( SADLER ) married ALBERT for the WENTZELL name only.

Thanking you for your interest,   Regards JUST J