Author Topic: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson  (Read 1661 times)

Offline sparrett

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 06:06 GMT (UK) »
Another question if I may.
When and where did Edward die?

Does the death certificate name his parents?

If you have no information about the first marriage, how do you know he was married in England at all?
 

I donít know if he had children in the UK, but his first child in Australia was in 1875, so he could not have left the UK any later than 1873-74.  I also know his profession was a journalist and he wrote turf or racing reports.



Or arrived a good deal earlier as you do not know his marriage date if there was one in England.

Sue
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Offline Amarow

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 09:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,

The word "formally" may have just been the language used by the person who copied the details from the marriage certificate.  I am quite certain that Emma Freeman was not married previously.

I believe Edward was married because he described himself as a widower at the time of his marriage to Emma and because his death certificate suggests the same.

Edward died 3 July 1900 in Sydney.  The information on Edward's death certificate was provided by his wife, Emma.  Informants are not always reliable, but the relevant information reads as follows:

Age - 62 years
Name and occupation of father and mother's maiden name - unknown
Religion - Church of England
Where born and how long in the Australian Colonies - Lancashire England, 11 years Victoria, 16 years Sydney
Place of marriage, age and to whom - 1) England - unknown; 2) Emma Agnes Freeman, Melbourne, 35 years
Children of marriage - 1st marriage not known; 2nd Amy 24 Archibald 22 Frederick 20 All Living, None deceased

Note that 35 years refers to his age at the time of marriage, but he was not actually married to Emma until 1886.  So this was clearly a lie!

No parents names are given on his death certificate; he provided that information himself at the time of his marriage to Emma.

Emma is also suggesting that he arrived in Australia in around 1873; this may or may not be the case.  I can find lots of Edward Wilsons arriving in Australia before and after this time from all over the UK and I have no idea which one he would be.  Trying to match him to a birth/baptism record is just as difficult, which is why I though that there might be a slim chance that a UK wife would be looking for him - a notice in a police gazette or a newspaper could potentially shed more light on who he might actually be.

Amanda

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Offline sparrett

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 09:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Amanda,
Thanks for the details from Edward's death certificate.
It has helped to put your request in a much clearer light as it gives the source of much of the information given on your earlier posts.

I agree that Emma was not revealing the whole truth at the time of the death.
She "knew nothing" about the previous marriage details and family because it was perhaps best to pretend it never happened. 

Edward was interred Waverly Cemetery according to the funeral notice.

Was Emma buried there also?

Worth bearing in mind that people escaping an unsatisfactory marriage often registered on the ship for immigration under a different name.

Sometimes people retained this alternate name permanently, sometimes not. Makes your search even trickier.

Sue


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Offline majm

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 09:44 GMT (UK) »
I am following this thread and becoming confuddled.  Are you sure it says 'formally' in this sense a formal name recorded at a formal marriage meaning at a marriage that is registered with the legal civil authorities ie a formal  marriage rather than a de facto one.  ... OR perhaps you mean 'formerly'  as in a previous name ... usually the maiden name but can be a 'lately' name in the sense of laterly being recent...

Sorry for being pedant but I think I can help if I can be un-confuddled.

JM
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Offline majm

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 09:58 GMT (UK) »
1870s- mid 1890s NSW clergy determine the words to describe status of the parties if a church wedding.  Choices were bachelor/spinster;  widower/widow;  petitioner/divorcee...

Widower/widow indicates that person is a parent WITH accompaning children ... It Does NOT mean there was proof of earlier formal marriage.  I suggest that in this instance it was purposedly used to give their young children's names the legitimacy that perhaps society expected. 

JM
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Offline Amarow

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 10:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,

Emma knew that Edward had been married in the UK, but they probably didn't discuss it. 

Edward is at Waverly, but Emma vanishes, so to speak.  I believe she remarried and probably died in the early 1900s, but that information is anecdotal.

If Edward Anderson Wilson was someone else at birth, then I have no hope of finding out who he was!! :(

JM - the word formally in this situation means previously; just a different way to write Emma Agnes Wilson (nee Freeman).  But this information was on the birth certificate of their first born child, Amy and they were lying - they weren't married at all.  When Edward and Emma finally married it was in 1886.  I believe in this situation that widower means that his UK wife has passed away.

It's all very confuddling!! I was just hoping that the UK wife (Edwards first wife) was looking for him.  If she was there may have been a notice in a police gazette or newspaper, perhaps sometime after 1860, maybe??  I don't have access to UK police gazette or newspapers, so I can't search for it.

Amanda

Offline sparrett

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 22:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,

Emma knew that Edward had been married in the UK, but they probably didn't discuss it. 

Edward is at Waverly, but Emma vanishes, so to speak.  I believe she remarried and probably died in the early 1900s, but that information is anecdotal.

If Edward Anderson Wilson was someone else at birth, then I have no hope of finding out who he was!! :(

JM - the word formally in this situation means previously; just a different way to write Emma Agnes Wilson (nee Freeman).  But this information was on the birth certificate of their first born child, Amy and they were lying - they weren't married at all.  When Edward and Emma finally married it was in 1886.  I believe in this situation that widower means that his UK wife has passed away.

It's all very confuddling!! I was just hoping that the UK wife (Edwards first wife) was looking for him.  If she was there may have been a notice in a police gazette or newspaper, perhaps sometime after 1860, maybe??  I don't have access to UK police gazette or newspapers, so I can't search for it.

Amanda

Hi Amanda,
With respect I would like to say that a great deal of your material is speculative and based what you think.
This is not sound research.
The information from the marriage certificate has come from notes made by someone else, so you are not able to sight it firsthand.

I would also like to stress as has JM (who by the way is extremely well-versed in the wording and idiom of Australian BMD documents ) has tried to explain the difference between three words
FORMALLY
FORMERLY
MAIDEN NAME

FORMALLY and FORMERLY are not different spellings of the same word.

They have different and significant differences.

However, having said all that ;D I hope you have success in your search.
Was Edward part of your direct line?
Are you descended from one of his three children?

Sue

 
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Offline Amarow

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 25 January 18 00:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Sue,

Just to clarify,  the information on the marriage and death certificates are not notes - I have copied the information here as it appears on those certificates.

I do not have a birth certificate for Amy - I have never viewed it.

I have sifted through some other documents and found a birth certificate for Archibald and it reads Emma Wilson formerly Freeman; but, as far as I am aware, there is no marriage for Emma Freeman until 1886, at which time she gives her name as Emma Freeman.

Based on the fact that Edward Wilson appears to have been married in the UK and that the wife was possibly still alive at the time of Amy's birth in Australia, I am exploring the possibility that she (the first wife) may have been looking for him.  There could be a newspaper notice that fits the description of Edward Wilson.  Yes, that's speculation, but it is a plausible line of inquiry, given that the marriage and death certificates, which I have, very strongly suggest that he was married; and I don't have any other information about him.  Would you do something different in this circumstance?  At the moment, I don't know what else I can look up.  Do you have any suggestions?

Amanda


Offline majm

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Re: Look up or Suggestions - Edward Anderson Wilson
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 25 January 18 01:08 GMT (UK) »
Civil registrations commence in England in 1837, so you could look for an English marriage for Edward using various online indexes .... and hopefully find one, and then find death of the wife.  He may have been known by the surname ANDERSON  :)

Try these:

https://www.familysearch.org/search

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

(Trove is an ongoing project)
You can search through the digitised (Australian) newspapers here:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/search?adv=y

You can search through the digitised gazettes here:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/gazette/search?adv=y&searchTerm=

I can find many many examples of NSW statute law recognising de facto marriages throughout much of the 1800s.     May I please re-assure you that it is not unusual to see a male person noted as a widower on a NSW Marriage cert for any of the years 1856-1895 and NOT find a previous marriage for him.   The word (widower/widow) had a broad meaning, particularly when used by NSW clergy.    There was a serious and long running dispute between 'Church' and 'State' over the depth of details NSW civil admin required of clergy conducting marriages in NSW.   

From the 1886 document  can you please indicate how many Church registers were accessed by NSW BDM officers to reconcile the summary info received in 1886 and the full info about both the bride and groom and their origins (including parents etc) in 1912-1915.   Also the denomination of the clergyman...  I will try to help further, as if it were a C of E marriage, there may be further info in different registers.

ADD
eg a family sheet ... giving year of arrival, occasionally it can even include the naming of the ship ...  :)  (Clergy's 'cheat sheet' for each family )

JM 
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Send me a PM to seek my express permission to use any information I post. Wait for my reply, do not take for granted you have any authority to copy paste my words.
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk