Author Topic: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575  (Read 463 times)

Offline Jonosue

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parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« on: Wednesday 24 January 18 12:31 GMT (UK) »
Hello,
I have traced my ancestry on my mother's side with some confidence to Rev. Andrew Ramsay (1574-1659) and his wife Mary Frazer (1575 - 1650). One Ancestry tree gives *without stating a source) her parents as John Frazer, 7th Laird of Knock (1552 - 1620) and Lady Margaret Leslie, Countess of Wemyss (1560 - ). I can find no evidence to back this up, and am aware that I am now working right at the edge of the start of records, at least online. Scotlandspeople has not come up with anything useful so far, and I tried Burkes Peerage, but just found that confusing. I would love to be able to look at sasines and other records, but have a problem in that I live in France!
I am amused by the fact that all these grand titles in my heritage disappeared when my 4bx great grandmother became the illegitimate offspring of one of the subsequent generations. How the mighty are fallen!
Hicks, Thorburn, Bennett, Millar, Parsons

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Offline GR2

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Re: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 12:40 GMT (UK) »
Where was Andrew Ramsay a minister? That will allow you to look him up in the Fasti Ecclesiae Scoticanae which gives biographies of ministers. He would also have been at university, and records of graduates could add more. You could also try searching the on-line catalogue of the national Records of Scotland in case there is any mention of them there.

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Offline GR2

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Re: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 13:17 GMT (UK) »
I have had a look at the catalogue of the National Records and also the entry for Andrew in the Fasti.

As you might expect, there are other Andrew Ramsays. Andrew Ramsay, merchant in Edinburgh, received land from John Fraser of Knock (in the north of Ayrshire), with the consent of John's eldest son, James, and James' wife, Mary Fraser.

According to the Fasti, Andrew Ramsay, minister in Edinburgh, was the son of Sir David Ramsay of Balmain, Fetteresso, by Catherine, daughter of Sir Robert Carneigie of Kinnaird. It gives quite a bit about his career. Andrew married (contract dated 18-12-1605) Marie, daughter of Sir Alexander Fraser of Durris. Their children were:

Robert, of Woodston, minister of Ecclesgreig
Sir Andrew, of Abbotshall, provost of Edinburgh
Eleazer, born 1614
David, born 1625
William, a preacher

Offline GR2

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Re: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 13:29 GMT (UK) »
I have looked at the Edinburgh burgess roll.

Mr Andro Ramsay, "one of the ordinary pastors of this burgh" was made burgess and guildbrother on 24th May 1615.

Andro Ramsay, "merchant, as third son to Mr Andro Ramsay, one of the ordinary pastors of this burgh", was made burgess and guildbrother on 10th August 1642.

It sounds as if this is the Andrew Ramsay, merchant in Edinburgh, who received land from John Fraser of Knock.

Offline Jonosue

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Re: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 14:54 GMT (UK) »
I had found Rev. Andrew Ramsay in the Dictionary of National Biography, courtesy of Ancestry, and as you say, there is a wealth of information about him there. He must have been a very intense character, I think.
I think the Andrew Ramsay who was a merchant was probably the Sir Andrew who became Provost of Edinburgh, and who is described elsewhere as starting life as a merchant. His mother was Mary Fraz/ser, and it is her parentage that I am trying to suss out. Your information from Fasti gives me her father's name, for which , thank you. Not the Laird of Knock, then, although there does seem to be a connection if Andrew Ramsay received land from John Knock.
What does 'fetteresso' mean?
Sue
Hicks, Thorburn, Bennett, Millar, Parsons

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Re: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 24 January 18 15:10 GMT (UK) »
Fetteresso is a parish in the County of Kincardine. The largest place in the parish is the town of Stonehaven.

See http://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO8585
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Jonosue

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Re: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 25 January 18 16:13 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for explaining about Fetteresso. I confess I had never heard of it!
I have been trying to track down Sir Alexander of Durris this afternoon, and have found so many Alexander Frasers,  I am lost. The most likely candidate, in that his dates might fit, is he who was physician to Charles II, but neither his wife's nor his daughter's name fits. (His daughter was Lady Carey not Mary).
You say that Rev. Andrew Ramsay and Mary Fraser were married, and the contract was dated 18 Dec 1605. Is that different from the banns that are usually in the parish records? if so, where would I find it and will it tell me any more about who Mary's father was? Scotlandspeople has so far turned up a nil result, no matter how I spell their names or widen the dates.
Sue
Hicks, Thorburn, Bennett, Millar, Parsons

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Re: parents of Mary Frazer, 1575
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 25 January 18 20:19 GMT (UK) »
When families owned land it was usual for a marriage contract to be drawn up. This would state that the couple were going to marry and usually specify the amount of the dowry to be paid to the groom and give details of land settled by the groom's family on the bride to support her in the event of her husband's death. The marriage itself took place in the normal way. The contract may well be recorded in the Register of Deeds.

I'm sure you will find information on the Frasers of Durris (to the south west of Aberdeen) on line (watch out that it is not Dores further north, which is sometimes written as Durris in old documents).

Looking again at the on-line catalogue of the National Records of Scotland, I found references to an earlier Alexander Fraser of Durris as a charter witness in 1464 and 1468 and a reference to Thomas Fraser of Durris and his wife Margaret Gordon in 1578.