Author Topic: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin  (Read 5356 times)

Offline a-l

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #45 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 10:33 GMT (UK) »
Another suggestion to add to the mix , a lock keeper ?

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Offline aus*jen

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #46 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 10:38 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou a-l for your suggestion, would a lock keeper have a similar uniform to the man in
the photograph?   
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Offline a-l

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #47 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 10:43 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou a-l for your suggestion, would a lock keeper have a similar uniform to the man in
the photograph?
I don't know for sure , I was thinking of jobs connected to water.

Offline rossko57

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #48 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 12:18 GMT (UK) »
Canals and docks were operated by private companies, employees could be uniformed.

I suppose we can't rule out Grandma getting a local photographer to make a copy of a print she had been sent by the lad, and sending that copy to relatives.  Grays location would then relate to Grandma.

That lapel button scan is conceiveably a standard RN "fouled anchor", a little tilted.  Cap badge still looks all wrong for RN, but it'd only take a misplacement of the cap band to throw the outline.

We shouldn't rule out your stoker - he certainly didn't spend all his time shovelling coal, it just means he is engineer's dept. not gunner or deckhand etc.  The uniform would suggest he's risen to petty officer heights.    A stoker would have a propellor patch badge on upper right arm - it just might be there in shadow.  These are stitched in red, won't stand out well in b/w

But the cuffs! the cuffs!  Those are ... singular.   It'd have to mean something weird like attachment to a tech training school (hence "driller").

I'm not helping ... he could be stoker or paymaster or lockie or tram conductor or ...

Offline aus*jen

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #49 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 13:43 GMT (UK) »
Of course you're helping rossko57 ;D   One of your ideas will bear fruit, I'm sure of it :D I just need to work my way through all the candidates keeping your suggestions in mind.

The grandmother connected to the maritime men lived in Portsmouth all her life.

Further research has revealed that there was a Navy establishment in Grays, Essex.

The buttons, on enlargement on screen have a flat edge and a domed centre.  Don't know if that
ties in with Navy buttons.

While the shirt might date the photo to 1908-12, the uniform itself could be earlier.

I thought of sending the photo to the Navy Museum but so far can't locate an email address.
They have a message facility but you can't attach a photo to it.

Regards,
Jen.
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Offline Daisypetal

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #50 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 16:21 GMT (UK) »

Hi,

Although I don't think that I can see the button in question here, it is a very interesting website for people searching buttons :)

http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/B/buttons.htm

Daisy
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Offline aus*jen

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #51 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 23:04 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou Daisy for link to the buttons site, I agree it is a very interesting website.

Regards,
Jen.
Boland   NSW, Australia
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Kirby  Lechlade, Gloucestershire
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Offline rossko57

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #52 on: Saturday 10 February 18 01:44 GMT (UK) »
For the benefit of anyone interested, see this photo
(from this splendid website http://www.godfreydykes.info/THE%20ROYAL%20NAVY%20WARRANT%20OFFICER%20PART%20ONE.htm)

The chap on the left is a Warrant Officer, a Carpenter by title.  Of note he has neither buttons nor rings at his cuff, no patch badge on his right arm, and eight buttons on his jacket.   That's a very specific combination that the website's knowledgable author doesn't understand, yet the contemporary text identifies him as Carpenter.   It may be this particular style lasted only a year or two, uniforms were in a state of change.
Note two of these W/Os have the extra buttons at the lapel, albeit "unbuttoned" i.e. nearly hidden beneath the lapel.

The cuffs in the original query photo worried me, but I have found a few photos now of Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers of the period where the camera has picked up vertical pleats or stitching at the cuff (also implying the cuff is either a separate piece sewn onto the sleeve, or a deep turn-up - often disguised by rank rings).
I begin to think it's just a freak of the photography highlighting an unimportant bit of tailoring.  Perhaps even residual tailor's chalk? on a brand new uniform.

The cap badge is still a bit dubious, but I think we are only seeing the bottom half with the top half in shadow.  The apparent "crown" is the bottom of the anchor in it's bowl of foliage.

Offline aus*jen

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Re: Unidentified uniform or costume - help please photographer was S. Edwin
« Reply #53 on: Saturday 10 February 18 07:45 GMT (UK) »
Thankyou Rossko57 for the website reference, photo and informative explanation of features
of Royal Navy uniforms.  Yes, the cap insignia is still questionable.

Regards,
Jen.
Boland   NSW, Australia
Gibbs   S.Aust. & Queensland
Jennings NSW, Australia
Page  Coventry UK, Queensland Aust.
Sellars (Sellard) Gloucestershire
Kirby  Lechlade, Gloucestershire
Hampshire  Stepney, Middlesex & Hampshire
Goddard,  Isle of Wight
Cushen, Isle of Wight
Keys,  Tyrone Ireland & NSW Australia