Author Topic: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners  (Read 547 times)

Offline didowells

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John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« on: Tuesday 30 January 18 17:12 GMT (UK) »

Have at last found some concrete evidence of his existence.  He was my 3 x great grandfather and I don’t know for certain when he was born but it was round about 1770.  Also don’t know where he was born – possibly Scotland.
His death was 1829 and his headstone is in the churchyard of St Mary Magdalene, Gillingham.
He was married to Ann (no maiden name) and the children I have for them are
            Mary Ann baptised 18 May 1800 in Alverstoke
   Henry baptised 14 Nov 1802 in Alverstoke
   Elizabeth Ann baptised 11 Sep 1804 in Alverstoke
   Jane Black baptised 19 Oct 1806 in St Mary’s Portsea
   Harriot Black baptised 21 Aug 1808 St Mary’s Portsea
   Eliza Black born approx. 1815 in Guernsey
On the 1841 Census Ann appears as a nurse at the District Ordnance Hospital, Gillingham
Ann – according to 1851 census – was born in Portsmouth about 1771
On the 1851 Census at 1 Manor Street, Gillingham she is head of the household and widowed and her occupation is East Ind Comp Pensioner
Please can anyone help me to find out about his service record.  I would love to know where and when he was born and who and where he married.
Wells, Oxford, Watson, Denn:  Kent & Sheffield
Crowther, Bower, Slater, Bramley, Baxter, Quarmby, Craven, Shaw, Thornley:  W Yorks
Wilkinson, Hyson/Ison:  Derbyshire
Tomlinson, Wilson, Coward, Lockwood:  Nottinghamshire
Black, Mason:  Hampshire

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Offline Daisypetal

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 31 January 18 18:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

There are a couple of mentions of a John BLACK Quartermaster Sergeant in the book "The History of the Corps of Royal Sappers and Miners. Vol II",


https://archive.org/details/cihm_33314


I found him here,

https://archive.org/stream/cihm_33314#page/n319/mode/2up/search/black

"1814 Dec 1. John Black, enlisted July 24, 1790. Was sergeant-major to the Guernsey half company. At the close of the war was appointed quartermaster-sergeant."



https://archive.org/stream/cihm_33314#page/n321/mode/2up/search/black

"John Black, after a service of twenty-eight years was discharged in February, 1819, and died some years after at Chatham."



More info in Vol I,


https://archive.org/stream/historycorpsroy00conngoog#page/n7/mode/2up/search/guernsey



Maybe knowing his date of enlistment and more about his regiment will help find out more about him  :)

Regards,
Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

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Offline didowells

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 31 January 18 20:23 GMT (UK) »
Daisypetal

You have made my day.  Thank you so much for this information.  I will have a good look tomorrow at the links.  The reference to Guernsey explains the birth of Eliza.

Di
Wells, Oxford, Watson, Denn:  Kent & Sheffield
Crowther, Bower, Slater, Bramley, Baxter, Quarmby, Craven, Shaw, Thornley:  W Yorks
Wilkinson, Hyson/Ison:  Derbyshire
Tomlinson, Wilson, Coward, Lockwood:  Nottinghamshire
Black, Mason:  Hampshire

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 31 January 18 21:00 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if this is the right John BLACK?

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14440594

The service years fit  :-\

Looking through the National Archives until I'm dizzy :) I think that some of the "Sappers and Miners" records might be included with the Royal Artillery, but I'm definitely not sure :)



I've just found this which looks interesting, I haven't had time to look through it very much but it might explain why in 1851 Ann is an East India Company Pensioner.


Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline didowells

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 01 February 18 08:42 GMT (UK) »
Hi Daisy

Have had a look at the links you gave me but I'm a bit confused.  It looks like the right John Black in the Royal Artillery Pensions Register but what does it mean?  Did he join the RA? 

I'm not very good at searching in the NA but do thank you for your efforts.  Can I get any further do you think?  Sorry about all these questions :)

Di
Wells, Oxford, Watson, Denn:  Kent & Sheffield
Crowther, Bower, Slater, Bramley, Baxter, Quarmby, Craven, Shaw, Thornley:  W Yorks
Wilkinson, Hyson/Ison:  Derbyshire
Tomlinson, Wilson, Coward, Lockwood:  Nottinghamshire
Black, Mason:  Hampshire

Offline Daisypetal

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 01 February 18 16:55 GMT (UK) »

I'm sorry, I forgot to put the last link into the above message :-[

It was supposed to say,


"I've just found this which looks interesting, I haven't had time to look through it very much but it might explain why in 1851 Ann is an East India Company Pensioner."

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lgf/




I was struggling with finding info about this at the NA but I found references like this that made me think that "sappers and miners" were connected to the Royal Artillery in the records :-\

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3763766


Looking through "The History of the Corps of Royal Sappers and Miners. Vol. I" I found that the "Sappers and Miners" were changed to the "Royal Artificers or Sappers and Miners" in 1812 then to the " Royal Sappers and Miners" in 1813 so following John's record could be challenging.



I found this man who joined the Royal Artillery then the Royal Sappers and Miners,

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lgg/

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8836047

So it seems possible that John BLACK did the same.



I would be so curious that if I were you I would risk paying the £8.40 and request a copy to see if they can find his record and how much it would cost to copy it.


Daisy
All Census Data included in this post is Crown Copyright (see: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk)

Offline ShaunJ

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 01 February 18 23:02 GMT (UK) »
There are a couple of possibly relevant HEIC pension records on FindMyPast

- a John Black signing for his pension in July 1829
- Ann Black deceased 7 February 1856 in Chatham pension district
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline didowells

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #7 on: Friday 02 February 18 10:25 GMT (UK) »
Daisy

You have been absolutely brilliant looking into this for me.  I must admit that I am a bit out of my depth here.

You are suggesting that I request a look up for me but I'm not sure exactly how to go about it.  Sorry to be such a wimp.  I'm not asking you to do it for me but just point me in the right direction!

Di
Wells, Oxford, Watson, Denn:  Kent & Sheffield
Crowther, Bower, Slater, Bramley, Baxter, Quarmby, Craven, Shaw, Thornley:  W Yorks
Wilkinson, Hyson/Ison:  Derbyshire
Tomlinson, Wilson, Coward, Lockwood:  Nottinghamshire
Black, Mason:  Hampshire

Offline didowells

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Re: John Black Quarter Master Sergeant Royal Sappers and Miners
« Reply #8 on: Friday 02 February 18 10:46 GMT (UK) »
ShaunJ

Thank you for looking for me. I have had a look at Find My Past but once again can't find what I'm looking for!  Please could you tell me how you found these records.

Di
Wells, Oxford, Watson, Denn:  Kent & Sheffield
Crowther, Bower, Slater, Bramley, Baxter, Quarmby, Craven, Shaw, Thornley:  W Yorks
Wilkinson, Hyson/Ison:  Derbyshire
Tomlinson, Wilson, Coward, Lockwood:  Nottinghamshire
Black, Mason:  Hampshire