Author Topic: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?  (Read 238 times)

Offline NNR

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 333
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« on: Tuesday 30 January 18 20:53 GMT (UK) »
Hi!

Family legend dictates that, as well as being shoemakers, two of my father and son ancestors also operated a shoe shop somewhere in Liverpool, possibly Dale Street. I've got all of their details from censuses, burial records, marriage and baptism records, but have never found any details of a shop. Does anyone have access to any Trade directories of the time?

The family's movements are shown below:

C1793 John Moore born.
1813 John Moore, now a cordwainer, marries at St. James' Church, Toxteth. He is 'of the parish' of Walton on the Hill
1815 John is a shoemaker in West Derby when his son, Thomas, is baptised there at St. Mary's Church
1817 John is still a shoemaker. The family are now living in Fazakerley but return to St. Mary's to baptise their daughter, Mary
1834 John, still a shoemaker, dies. He had been living in Thornton and is buried in Sefton
1839 Daughter Mary can be found living on Bostock Street in Liverpool when she married. A child is born to Mary and her husband out in Sefton later that year.
1841 Both John's children are now in Sefton Village at the same address. Thomas is a shoemaker.
1842 Thomas is a shoemaker living on Bostock Street in Liverpool when he marries Ellen of Dale Street at St. Nicholas Church
1843 Thomas is a cordwainer in Great Crosby when his son is baptised there at St. Luke's
1845 Thomas remains in Great Crosby when his second son is baptised. First at Sefton, and then again a few months later at St. Luke's.
1848 still a Great Crosby cordwainer when daughter baptised at St. Lukes
1851 still a Great Crosby shoemaker when son baptised at the same place. The census of this year has the family in Great Crosby village
1854 now living in Waterloo, but still a shoemaker, and still baptised this final child at St. Luke's. Interestingly, the baptism takes place six months after the birth
1856 Thomas, a 'boot and shoemaker' dies in Great Crosby

And that's that. None of his children became shoemakers. Did he ever have a shop? Is the story true? Any help gratefully appreciated!
Kirkburton Bray Morton Charlesworth Kay Swallow Moorhouse Walker Mathewman
Penistone Micklethwaite
Liverpool Moore Durning
Formby Crookham Birchall Dobb Fleetwood
Childwall Fleetwood Knowles Ireland
Kendal Coulton Derome
Essex Cooper Robinson
Warrington Bleasdale Atherton
Suffolk Death
Lewes Spurgeon Horton
East Lothian Paxton Durkie
Edinburgh Blaikie Rollock Livingstone
Chirnside Paxton
Kilbarron Young Donohue Stapleton Meagher Fogarty Gleeson Meara Nevin
Kilsheelan Hennessy
Galway Nevin

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,870
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 30 January 18 21:24 GMT (UK) »
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline big g

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 31 January 18 09:30 GMT (UK) »
NNR,

John Moore married in 1813 to  Elizabeth Crookham b 1796 - she was sister to my gt.gt.gt. grandma Catherine Crookham b 1813. !!

Glenys
Williams - Llanllyfni Llandwrog Llanrug Bedd Austr.
Jones - Beddgelert/Nantlle
Parry - Llanllyfni
Owen s - Beddgelert
Pierce - Llanrug
Jarvis/Jervis - Llanrug
Roberts - Llanddeiniolen
Griffith  - Beddgellert/LLanrug


"This information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk"

Corrin - I.o.M./Bootle/K'dale/Seaforth
Stewart - Durham L'pool
Whitford -I o M L'pool
Atkinson - Bootle K'dale
Crookham - Formby Crosby L'pool

Lloyd Dickinson Burgess Threlfall Tarbuck - Lancs

Offline Gibel

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,835
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 31 January 18 09:59 GMT (UK) »
He probably made and repaired shoes in a part of his own home supplying the local population. Great Crosby would have been a small village at the time you mention.

Offline ShaunJ

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,490
    • View Profile
    • Family History
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 31 January 18 11:04 GMT (UK) »
Thomas was a journeyman shoemaker per the 1851 census so he would not have been in business for himself (at that time). 
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Blue70

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,276
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 01 February 18 16:02 GMT (UK) »
See Family Search Liverpool links below there's a large collection of directories that can be viewed free when signed in:-

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770691.0


Blue

Offline lancsann

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 702
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #6 on: Friday 02 February 18 22:31 GMT (UK) »
Thomas was a journeyman shoemaker per the 1851 census so he would not have been in business for himself (at that time).

As a journeyman could he not work for himself as long as he did not employ anybody or take on an apprentice. Or does it imply he was working for someone else and being paid by the day.

Offline stanmapstone

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 22,870
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 03 February 18 08:50 GMT (UK) »
A Journeyman is one who, having served his apprenticeship to a handicraft or trade, is qualified to work at it for days' wages; who has served his apprenticeship or learned a trade or handicraft, and works at it not on his own account but as the servant or employee of another; a qualified mechanic or artisan who works for another. Distinguished on one side from apprentice, on the other from master. OED
Stan
Mapstone, Mapston.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online Maiden Stone

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 753
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Liverpool shoe shop c1810s-40s?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 03 February 18 16:45 GMT (UK) »
Until around mid 19thC when manufacture of shoes began to move into factories, a master-shoemaker owning a larger shoe shop in a large town or city may have had a workshop on the premises with several journeymen, apprentices and perhaps a few women or he may have employed out-workers making shoes at home. A master-shoemaker who was less successful or in a smaller town or one without a large affluent population may have operated from his home or a small workshop. The latter may have been a one-man operation or may have been in business with family members and/or may have employed 1 or 2 journeymen + an apprentice. Only better-off people could afford new shoes before mass production.

 Cordwainer is from Corboba leather from Spain which was acknowledged to be superior leather. Original meaning of  cordwainer would have been a shoemaker who made well-crafted, bespoke shoes from good quality leather. Later it might be understood to differentiate a shoemaker from a cobbler.
 My 3xGGF was a journeyman shoemaker/cordwainer in Preston, Lancs in 1840s & 1850s. So was the person whose house he lived in and most of his friends. Some of them worked for a master-shoemaker who had premises on one of the main shopping streets. The master-shoemaker's brother had a shop in another busy shopping street. Some of the shoemakers lived in a weind/ginnel/close off the street where the shop was. Wives of some were boot-closers.  The journeymen frequently staged strikes & demonstrations. The name of the shop-owning master-shoemaker appeared in court cases in the local newspaper many times in connection with strikes, thefts of leather by workers and of shoes by people posing as customers.
Before a man could call himself a master shoemaker he had to produce a pair of shoes to the specification of the guild. The finished "masterpiece" was examined by some of the members. By the 19th century he also had to be numerate and literate since his occupation involved taking measurements and keeping records.
Shoemaking had booms and slumps during the 19th century as other trades did. Sometimes it was difficult to make a living. Shoemakers were among the earliest trade unions. Some were imprisoned in 1830s and later.