Author Topic: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record  (Read 1019 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #36 on: Sunday 04 February 18 10:25 GMT (UK) »
Found it! Problem was her name wasn't really Grace
Grizel is an older form of Grace.
Not quite.

Grizel/Grizzel/Grissell etc is a name in its own right, a form of Griselda, a name of Germanic origin and uncertain meaning - possibly 'grey war' or 'Christ war'.

Grace is an entirely separate name, from French, and means what it says.

Grizel and variants occur commonly in earlier years, but declined in popularity while Grace rose in popularity. In 1513-1799 there was one Grace for every 31 Gris/zel*s. From 1800-1899 there were 15 Graces for each Gris/zel*s and from 1900-2017 104 Graces for every Gris/zel*s.

However from around the late 18th century onwards it's quite common to find a person baptised as Gris/zel* being subsequently recorded as Grace. It seldom happens the other way round.
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Offline Wendy2305

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #37 on: Sunday 04 February 18 11:13 GMT (UK) »
It also looks like Thomas and Grace followed the naming pattern for their children so possibly Thomas parents were Thomas and Margaret

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Offline colmc

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #38 on: Sunday 04 February 18 16:01 GMT (UK) »
It also looks like Thomas and Grace followed the naming pattern for their children so possibly Thomas parents were Thomas and Margaret
Could you explain the Scottish naming pattern please, I've heard of it before but don't know it.
They were born in order:
John, Thomas, Grizzel, Margaret, Kenneth, Mary.

Thanks Forfarian

Offline Wendy2305

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #39 on: Sunday 04 February 18 16:15 GMT (UK) »
It also looks like Thomas and Grace followed the naming pattern for their children so possibly Thomas parents were Thomas and Margaret
Could you explain the Scottish naming pattern please, I've heard of it before but don't know it.
They were born in order:
John, Thomas, Grizzel, Margaret, Kenneth, Mary.

Thanks Forfarian


The Scottish naming pattern was
1st son named after parental grandfather (John)
2nd son maternal grandfather (Thomas)
3rd son father (Kenneth could be a brother of Grace Snr but couldn't see a baptisim to the parents mentioned)

1st daughter named after maternal grandmother (Grace)
2nd daughter paternal grandmother (Margaret)
3rd daughter mother (Mary ? maybe a sister of Thomas Snr )

not every one followed it and can be misleading if there are missing baptisims or parents chose not to follow it completely but it can offer clues to the parenage of the parents as you can see not strictly in the right order

Offline colmc

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #40 on: Sunday 04 February 18 17:55 GMT (UK) »
Thanks. It looks like Kenneths children and grandchildren all followed the same pattern but i'd need to confirm their maternal family names and all birth dates to be sure.
 The third son had to be something other than Thomas anyway, Its possible there was an Isabelle before Mary --- There was an Isabelle Kerr born in Ireland on a Gedmatch DNA match's pedigree page that seemed the most likely connection, might not have been the connection, may have been a cousin rather than a sibling, and the assumed birth date for Mary could have me placing them in the wrong order - the match never replied to my email either.

Offline flst

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #41 on: Sunday 04 February 18 18:51 GMT (UK) »
It is not unknown for siblings to have the sames name :) If their paternal & maternal grandfathers, for example, had the same Christian name!
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Offline colmc

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 08 February 18 18:18 GMT (UK) »
Scotlandspeople done a brilliant job on that marriage image for me

National archives were also very helpful with the files I was having trouble with. I think the Thomas Kerr on the Shamrock and stationed at Portlooe-Dunbeg-Ballwalter-Greenore-Carlingford is another Thomas Kerr.
These files I have now add up, with records from 1832 to 1857 all around Galway Bay
(image for laziness)
It strongly suggests that my GG GM's baptism record will be found in the Donaghadee Co Down area between 1826 and 1832 - rather than Co Antrim as on census forms and earlier than she claimed

Offline Little Nell

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #43 on: Friday 09 February 18 20:11 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I think the Thomas Kerr on the Shamrock and stationed at Portlooe-Dunbeg-Ballwalter-Greenore-Carlingford is another Thomas Kerr.

I think so too.  I was coming to that conclusion as well when I started to put all my scribblings in the right order.  Which makes it even more surprising that I found the right one in Belvelvie in 1826 by chance!

Nell
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Offline colmc

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Re: lookup request - Grace KERR birth or baptism record
« Reply #44 on: Sunday 11 February 18 10:49 GMT (UK) »
Could turn out to be my great great granduncle yet