Author Topic: CoA coloured?  (Read 12544 times)

Offline davidbappleton

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 15:32 GMT (UK) »
Do you know if the tongue of the lion's head Crest would have been red David? It doesn't say 'langued gules' in the description? Perhaps it should be blue really, as no other colour is mentioned apart from the azure?

The general rule of thumb is that unless specifically blazoned otherwise, the tongue (and eyes and claws) are red, except when the lion (or other animal) or the background it is on is red, in which case the tongue and eyes are blue.

You can see an example of this latter in the Royal Arms of Great Britain, where the golden lions on the red quarter and the red lion in the golden quarter generally have their tongues, eyes, and claws in blue.

David

Offline davidbappleton

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 15:37 GMT (UK) »
I'm sure to be corrected here but I think I read somewhere that 3 lions were only on a Coat of Arms if the family laid claim to Royal descent?

That is only true if the field is red and the three lions passant gardant are gold (that is, if it is the Royal Arms of England). Here, we have a black shield with three lions passant (but not gardant), and they are crowned. It's not the same arms as England, and is not a claim of royal descent.

David

Offline Taylor94

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 637
  • My grt grt grandfather, after capture WW1
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 18:17 GMT (UK) »
Thank you very much for clearing that up David.
A look at the Norfolk visitation gives Roger Fowler's (Anne Fowlers grandfather) family arms as 'Azure, on a chevron argent, between three lions passant-guardant or, as many crosses moline gules'
So the Fowler arms to an extent seem to have been added to the Mountfort arms and Anne herself as an Heraldic Heiress.
It also seems that when William dies, the older son inherits both his fathers and Mothers fathers arms and quarters them so I'm thinking a quartering of Bendy Argent and Azure then Three lions passant-guardant.

I can add the Red tongue at some point I'm sure, Unless Goldie wanted to put up an edited version of theirs :)

Thank you all for your help.
Richard Dudley of Cosby. Gent
George Bent of Cosby. Gent
William Black of Kilby. Gent
Bernard Cotton of Dadlington. Esq
Sir Thomas Halford of Wistow. Bart
Richard Swynfen of Sutton Cheney. Gent
John Cotes of Aylestone. Gent
John Freeston of East Norton. Gent
Sir John Bernard of Abington.
Edward Shuckburgh of Naseby. Esq
Richard Worsley of Deeping. Esq
Thomas Hobson of Glen. Gent
John Grant of Stretton Parva. Gent
John Miles of Heanley Hall. Gent
Thomas Dabridgecourt. Esq
Sir Clement Edmondes

Offline goldie61

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,496
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 23:08 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for clearing up the colours for tongues, claws etc David.
Here is a red-tongued lion! :)
Lane, Burgess: Cheshire. Finney, Rogers, Gilman:Derbys
Cochran, Nicol, Paton, Bruce:Scotland. Bertolle:London
Bainbridge, Christman, Jeffs: Staffs


Offline Taylor94

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 637
  • My grt grt grandfather, after capture WW1
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 11 February 18 17:49 GMT (UK) »
I've managed to find the Children to William Mountfort Esq and Ann. My 11th grt grandfather William and his brother Sir Edward are listed on the Visitation of Staffordshire. It seems Edward being the Heir didn't Quarter the arms listed in the Warwickshire Visitation. Who ever supplied to the heralds (I'm assuming Edward did as he was the Current Lord of Bescot) is using the standard arms of Mountfort/Montfort which is a varying amount of Bendy. He also seems to have supplied a different crest. I assume to denote his branch?
My 10th grt grandmother is also listed on visitation Susanna Mountfort who marries my 10th grt grandfather George Clarkson.
Richard Dudley of Cosby. Gent
George Bent of Cosby. Gent
William Black of Kilby. Gent
Bernard Cotton of Dadlington. Esq
Sir Thomas Halford of Wistow. Bart
Richard Swynfen of Sutton Cheney. Gent
John Cotes of Aylestone. Gent
John Freeston of East Norton. Gent
Sir John Bernard of Abington.
Edward Shuckburgh of Naseby. Esq
Richard Worsley of Deeping. Esq
Thomas Hobson of Glen. Gent
John Grant of Stretton Parva. Gent
John Miles of Heanley Hall. Gent
Thomas Dabridgecourt. Esq
Sir Clement Edmondes

Offline AllanWC

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #14 on: Friday 06 March 20 21:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi MrDudley. I see that we are both descendants of George and Susannah Clarkson. George being my 8th Great GF.
I would love to be able to chat to someone about the Mountfords and Clarksons so would be pleased if we could chat direct in some way.
Regards, Allan

Offline AllanWC

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 5
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 12 March 20 21:32 GMT (UK) »
Hi Thomas.
For some reason I can't reply to your message so have to post here.
I am directly descended from George Clarkson and Susannah Mountford and I am still a Clarkson some 11 generations later.
If John the convict is the one that went to Australia, no I haven't proved a connection yet but there must be one.
 I would love to chat more.
Regards
Allan

Offline sarah

  • Administrator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 17,685
  • RootsChat Co-Founder
    • View Profile
Re: CoA coloured?
« Reply #16 on: Friday 13 March 20 16:21 GMT (UK) »
Allan your email address has been removed because it is never safe for you to publish your private details on the internet.

Now that you have made 2 post you can now access the private message function.

Regards

Sarah :)
For Help on how to post an Image on RootsChat
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=459330.0

If you have been helped on RootsChat be sure to spread the word!

UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk