Author Topic: Helen Dalgleish  (Read 1315 times)

Offline Fordyce

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Helen Dalgleish
« on: Thursday 01 February 18 22:20 GMT (UK) »
George Dalgleish & Janet Christie had family in Stirling 1804-1815.
A son Peter Dalgleish was a tallow chandler and candlemaker in Stirling in 1841, recently widowed with a young son. With him was a Helen Dalgleish age 20. She does not appear to be Peter's sister. Who is she?

Thomas Dalgleish & Isabel Malcolm/Maiklem/Meikleham/Maitland had family in Falkirk 1801-1815.
A son Andrew Dalgleish was visiting a Fraser family at 7 Drury St, Barony (Glasgow) in 1851.
At the same address (next in the census schedule) is James Preston engineer and his daughter Grace Preston age 8 both from Haddington. Recorded as his wife is Helen Preston from Stirlingshire, age 30. Who is she?

It seems to me that this Helen is Helen Dalgleish, but she does not appear to be Andrew's sister.
- can you connect George Dalgleish and Thomas Dalgleish? Are they brothers?
- can you identify the parents of Helen Dalgleish?
- the only way she could be a gddaughter would be if she were illeg d/o Janet Dalgleish, b 1801 Falkirk to Thomas Dalgleish & Isabel Malcolm. Did Janet Dalgleish later marry?
- there's good reason to query the accuracy of the Preston household, Helen not being his wife. Instead perhaps a housekeeper or even a visitor (next door being rather full that night!)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Helen Dalgleish
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 01 February 18 22:37 GMT (UK) »
The 1851 FREECEN transcript shows James and Helen as married. Have you found them in later censuses?

Monica  :)
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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Helen Dalgleish
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 01 February 18 22:38 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Recorded as his wife is Helen Preston from Stirlingshire, age 30. Who is she?

Have you looked up the marriage on Scotlands People to get her maiden name or looked up Grace's birth

If they were all "visitors" there won't be any relationship shown between Andrew and Helen.   

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can you connect George Dalgleish and Thomas Dalgleish? Are they brothers?

Download a copy of their respective death certs from SP and compare parents

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can you identify the parents of Helen Dalgleish?

1841 does not show relationships

When and who did she marry?  If before 1855 you will need her death cert to determine parentage

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Did Janet Dalgleish later marry?

Again - you need to look on SP for the answer
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Helen Dalgleish
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 01 February 18 22:40 GMT (UK) »
Also on SP and worth checking is the possible marriage showing of Grace Preston and William Morris in Bridgeton Glasgow 1873 - ref 644/3 361. This should at least help in confirming Grace's mother's name.

Grace and her family in 1881:

William Morris 47 potter b. Montrose
Grace Morris 37 b. Haddington
Elizabeth Morris 7
James Morris 5
William Morris 3
Joseph Morris 11 Months

Address: 59 Glebe St., Glasgow/ St Rollox

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: Helen Dalgleish
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 01 February 18 22:50 GMT (UK) »
No sign of Helen in 1861 it seems:

James Preston 41 b. Engine Fitter  b. Haddington
Marion Preston 34 wife b. Cumnock, Ayrshire
Grace Preston 17
Hanna Preston 7
Elizabeth Preston 3
Jemima M Preston 1
Thomas Preston 33 brother iron dresser b. Haddington
Agnes Preston 29
Elizabeth Preston 3
Marion Preston 11 Months

Address: 56 Parliamentary Rd, Glasgow

I think Marion is a Marion Mcquarrie. Can't easily see marriage, maybe 1854? There is an 1855 birth entry for them (James and Marion), more after.

Monica
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Offline Fordyce

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Re: Helen Dalgleish
« Reply #5 on: Friday 02 February 18 10:04 GMT (UK) »
The point of my post is to ask about these Dalgleish family groups. I am asking the question hoping that someone had already researched them (not in the Preston context) because none of the usual resources provide any answers.

The situation on the Preston side has been gone over exhaustively trying to make sense of all sorts of anomalies in surviving records. My sole remaining avenue is to identify Helen from Stirlingshire. As explained, I believe she is Helen Dalgleish but need evidence to confirm this assertion. At present there is none. I also feel she was only a housekeeper or visitor, and she was not married to James Preston.

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The 1851 FREECEN transcript shows James and Helen as married. Have you found them in later censuses?
James Preston married in 1853 (to Marion McQuarrie); he had previously married in 1842 (to Elizabeth Ogilvie). There is no record of an intermediate marriage (to Helen). There could be an argument of co-habitation, except that James is on record as having his 4th lawful child by Elizabeth Ogilvie in 1853 - after he had married Marion McQuarrie. 

In that context, the 1851 census doesn't make sense - goodness me, it might even be inaccurate!

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This should at least help in confirming Grace's mother's name
I know Grace's situation. She is the daughter by his first wife (Elizabeth Ogilvie). There is no record or other evidence of there ever being a further two children before the so-called 4th child was born. There is no record of when and where Elizabeth Ogilvie died.

The so-called 4th child is my gtgdmother Hannah Preston - her mother could be Elizabeth Ogilvie (if you believe the record of her birth), Helen (Dalgleish) (if you believe the 1851 census) or Marion McQuarrie (if you believe she lied when she said her child in 1855 was her first child).

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Helen Dalgleish
« Reply #6 on: Friday 02 February 18 13:21 GMT (UK) »
Who did Hannah name as her mother in her marriage or by informant on her death?

The OPR records for births are not helping are they  :-\

Monica
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Offline Fordyce

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Re: Helen Dalgleish
« Reply #7 on: Friday 02 February 18 14:49 GMT (UK) »
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Who did Hannah name as her mother in her marriage or by informant on her death?
Marion McQuarrie.

But Hannah Preston had been brought up from birth by Marion McQuarrie. James Preston was alive when Hannah Preston married; Marion McQuarrie outlived Hannah Preston. Therefore stating she was her mother without qualification (thus giving the impression she was her natural mother rather than adoptive mother or stepmother) is of little weight compared to the father himself stating Hannah Preston's mother was Elizabeth Ogilvie.

Confirming my identification of Helen Dalgleish might lead to identifying her role in the Preston household in 1851 (never mind what the 1851 census says), and thence to get some insight into why James Preston should claim Hannah Preston's mother was Elizabeth Ogilvie, giving birth in the very tenement where James Preston & Marion McQuarrie lived - and Marion McQuarrie herself maintaining the deception, if that what it was, by asserting that their child born in 1855 at the same address was her 1st child.

There could be cause for deception in that Marion McQuarrie was housemaid to engineer Alexander Fulton in 1851. He ran Stark & Fulton prominent iron founders and manufacturers of railway engines at the time; James Preston could easily have been an employee. Alexander Fulton had been married for a while and had family, indeed he and his wife had another child a year of two later. Perhaps James Preston took on Fulton's child and perhaps he was given money in return for Marion McQuarrie not going to the Kirk Session. But then why bring his deceased wife into it? I have explored every scenario I can think of and every one has a fatal flaw.