Author Topic: Christening of Thomas Rogers  (Read 691 times)

Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,683
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 00:21 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt

I have found a baptism for an Elizabeth Dourne 1645 at Challock too- which again is only a mile from Molash, daughter of a William, I think. Will check with what I found and write it up. I think I found a baptism in Molash c1620 of a Joseph Dourne, will get back to you on that

EDIT: Hadn't realised how near Stalisfield is to the other places.

********************************

There was also two burials in Kennington 1696 within 15 days of each other for Thomas Rogers - father and son perhaps, which possibly rules them out.

Claire

Hi Claire

It looks more and more likely that my Thomas is the son of Peter and Elizabeth based on this. I haven't been able to find a christening for Peter yet. Do you have any idea where/when he might have been christened?

I think you are right about the two burial in Kennington, it looks more likely that they refer to separate people (probably father and son) rather than the same person.

I wonder if the Joseph Dourne christened in Molash in 1620 is related to Elizabeth? Do you think he might be William Dourne's brother? This Joseph is probably the one who died in 1686 leaving a Will so that might give me more clues.

Matt

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline ..claire..

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,553
  • Genealogy...Life in the Past Lane
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 01:03 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt

There is a baptism in Throwley on 18 Feb 1621 of a Jospeh DWORNE - no parents listed ( for any child baptised at all except where I named them ) there is also an Elizabeth baptised in 1611 daughter of a William. There are also a George 1608, Maria 1605, Judyth 1602, Paulina 1604, Thomas 1607, Thomason 1611, John 1610 son of Joseph. Ann 1612 son of William, David 1616, Mary 1606, William 1609

It looks like three brothers possibly ( John, Joseph and William) baptising children in Throwley.

William Doune married Dorothy Holforth at Throwley 4 Jul 1603
I can't see marriages for the other two.

Possibly the Thomas born 1607 is the father of the Elizabeth you have found.
Possibly the William born in 1609 is the father of the Elizabeth I have found.

Elizabeth  Doorne bapt. 19 Oct 1645 at Challock, Sts Cosmas & Damian, daughter of William. Possible marriage in Stalisfield - William Dourne to Godly Mercer 6 Oct 1633.

In the Canterbury CC Index there are quite a few Wills and Inventories for variants of Dourne ( I've included Downe as that was written Dourne or Downe in one Will or Inventory reference I looked at)

Claire
Luce, Tippett , Thomson, Dolling ~ Devon & Cornwall
Mocquard ~ London, France
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline ..claire..

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,553
  • Genealogy...Life in the Past Lane
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 01:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi again

Three siblings with the surname Dean in Molash, all children of John DEAN.

Elizabeth bapt. 24 Jan 1653
Jane bapt. 28 Sep 1658
John bapt. 9 Jan 1655

John DEAN married Mary Howell at Challock 24 Aug 1651.
************************************************************

The only Peter I can find is baptised in Dover 1646 as Petter Roggers son of Stephen and Jane. I would have thought possibly too far away.

 I just feel given Peter Rogers who died 1696 and was buried in Leaveland and that there are a couple of early records in Leaveland of another Peter Rogers,  and there was a Thomas & a James baptising children there c1645 that the family were from this area. I've also just gone through the register which stops at 1645 and then starts again 1657 when there is one baptism and nothing until 1664. Wonder if there are missing baptisms, seems odd no children born and baptised for twelve years plus.

Claire
Luce, Tippett , Thomson, Dolling ~ Devon & Cornwall
Mocquard ~ London, France
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,683
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 02:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi again

Three siblings with the surname Dean in Molash, all children of John DEAN.

Elizabeth bapt. 24 Jan 1653
Jane bapt. 28 Sep 1658
John bapt. 9 Jan 1655

John DEAN married Mary Howell at Challock 24 Aug 1651.
************************************************************

The only Peter I can find is baptised in Dover 1646 as Petter Roggers son of Stephen and Jane. I would have thought possibly too far away.

 I just feel given Peter Rogers who died 1696 and was buried in Leaveland and that there are a couple of early records in Leaveland of another Peter Rogers,  and there was a Thomas & a James baptising children there c1645 that the family were from this area. I've also just gone through the register which stops at 1645 and then starts again 1657 when there is one baptism and nothing until 1664. Wonder if there are missing baptisms, seems odd no children born and baptised for twelve years plus.

Claire

Hi Claire

Thanks for those bits of info. I think you are right about Dover being too far away for Peter Rogers, but I might look into it just in case.

I'll go through the info tomorrow and get back to you with some ides.

There are a few things which made this lot stand out though,

1) Paulina is quite a distinctive name and might be helpful when tracing references to her in other records suh as Wills.

2) I think Thomas (1607) and William (1609) are most likely to be brothers but this is only an idea.

How do you think John DEAN and his children relate to those in Throwley? Do you think they are connected?

Anyhow that's all for now but I will send more details tomorrow.

Matt

Offline ..claire..

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,553
  • Genealogy...Life in the Past Lane
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 12:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt

Will have a look into John Dean see if his surname is a corruption of Dourne.

Paulina Dourne of Eastling married Edward PREBLE of Boughts Blean ? ( Boughton under Blean possibly) on 21 July 1633 at Eastling.

Can see a daughter Elizabeth born 1635, and then nothing. I can see two burials of an Edward PREBLE, both labourers - one of whom had a wife Ann. One I presume will be the husband of Paulina. Cannot find a burial for Paulina or a possible remarriage.

Edward Preble was bapt. in Broughton Blean on 6 Nov 1603 son of Edward.
Edward Preble (father of Edward) buried 8 Jan 1641
Edward Preble (husband of Paulina) buried 1 Jul 1668

Claire
Luce, Tippett , Thomson, Dolling ~ Devon & Cornwall
Mocquard ~ London, France
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,683
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 23:35 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt

Will have a look into John Dean see if his surname is a corruption of Dourne.

Paulina Dourne of Eastling married Edward PREBLE of Boughts Blean ? ( Boughton under Blean possibly) on 21 July 1633 at Eastling.

Can see a daughter Elizabeth born 1635, and then nothing. I can see two burials of an Edward PREBLE, both labourers - one of whom had a wife Ann. One I presume will be the husband of Paulina. Cannot find a burial for Paulina or a possible remarriage.

Edward Preble was bapt. in Broughton Blean on 6 Nov 1603 son of Edward.
Edward Preble (father of Edward) buried 8 Jan 1641
Edward Preble (husband of Paulina) buried 1 Jul 1668

Claire

Hi Claire

Yes Boughton Blean (or Bought Bleans) is short for Boughton under Blean. I think I have seen the name Preble (or Prebble) in other sources but I will have to double check.

Anyhow that's all for the moment but I should have more information and possible leads either tomorrow or on Thursday as I plan to visit the National Archives then.

Matt

Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,683
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 08 February 18 23:58 GMT (UK) »
Hi Claire

I visited the National Archives at Kew today and obtained copies of the 1754 Will of Thomas Rogers and also the 1686 Will of Joseph Dourne of Molash.

From the information contained in the Will of Joseph Dourne it is clear that there is a link with the Rogers family.

After a rather lengthy preamble with all the usual requests for burial and bequests of money to the poor, Joseph names the following people:

"my brother Thomas Dourne"

He then states

"I give and bequeath unto Peter Rogers sonn of Thomas Rogers of Throwley the sum of twenty pounds of lawful money which I promised him upon his marriage to Elizabeth Dourne my kinswoman"

So clearly Joseph Dourne is related to the Elizabeth Dourne who was married to Peter Rogers. Also given that this Peter was the son of "Thomas Rogers of Throwley" I suspect he could be the father of my Thomas Rogers. It would certainly explain how the name "Joseph" got into the family mix.

Following on from this mention of Peter Rogers etc, Joseph goes on to mention the following people:

"Joseph Rogers son of the above named Peter Rogers"

"my loving wife Joane"

"Joseph Chapman sonn of Peter Chapman"

There's no mention of Thomas Rogers but given that Peter Rogers had a son named Joseph, and we know that Thomas had a son named Joseph, I think it is very likely that Thomas was a son of Peter.

So how does Elizabeth Dourne fit in? I think that when Joseph Dourne mentioned his "kinswoman" he might have been referring to a niece. I'll have to look at the info you've sent me but I think this might get me somewhere.

Anyhow let me know what you think of this theory.

Matt

Offline ..claire..

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,553
  • Genealogy...Life in the Past Lane
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #25 on: Friday 09 February 18 00:23 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt

What a brilliant Will :)  I think your theory is spot on!

I think the baptism you have found in Stalisfield 1639 may possibly be correct (Elizabeth daughter of Thomas & Dorothy)

Peter Chapman married Mary DORNE 7 Oct 1657 at Faversham. Possibly their son Joseph is a nephew or relative somehow.

I like to see things coming together, I do feel you are on the right track :)

Claire
Luce, Tippett , Thomson, Dolling ~ Devon & Cornwall
Mocquard ~ London, France
Census info is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MattD30

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,683
    • View Profile
Re: Christening of Thomas Rogers
« Reply #26 on: Friday 09 February 18 11:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi Matt

What a brilliant Will :)  I think your theory is spot on!

I think the baptism you have found in Stalisfield 1639 may possibly be correct (Elizabeth daughter of Thomas & Dorothy)

Peter Chapman married Mary DORNE 7 Oct 1657 at Faversham. Possibly their son Joseph is a nephew or relative somehow.

I like to see things coming together, I do feel you are on the right track :)

Claire

Hi Claire

Yes this is the kind of Will I like, not to long but full of information and names. I also obtained a copy of the 1754 will of Thomas Rogers which confirmed that the Thomas who died in Molash in 1754 is mine. In it he names all his daughters and their husbands including:

"Mary the wife of Thomas Homewood..."

Of course the only problem here is getting back beyond Joseph etc. I know you said that you had found a christening in 1620 for Joseph with no parents, and possible siblings including Thomas and William.

I think the answer there will possibly be found in more Wills.

Anyhow for now I am going to try to draw up a tree based on the info you've sent me and what is included in this Will. I'll let you know how I get on.

Do you know where Hunton is or how far from Throwley it is btw?

More to follow later.....

Thanks

Matt