Author Topic: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90  (Read 415 times)

Offline seaweed

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Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 08 February 18 19:31 GMT (UK) »
SPARTAN, Union Steamship Company, Official number 82421, Captain A M Watt. Sailed from Southampton 24/Jan/1884, arrived/sailed Plymouth for mails 25/Jan. Sailed Madeira 31/Jan Arrived Cape Town 10pm 16/Feb/1884.
 SPARTAN was built in 1881 by J & G Thompson & Co. at Glasgow with a tonnage of 3487grt, a length of 364ft 6in, a beam of 42ft 7in and a service speed of 12 knots.
Sister of the TROJAN she was completed for the mail run in 1881 but transferred to the Intermediate service in 1889.
In November 1899 she was used as a troopship during the Boer War. Surplus to requirements when Union-Castle was formed in 1900 she was sold to A. Fragala of Catania, Sicily and renamed Fume. After a further two years service she was broken up in Italy in April 1902.
Her 1884 logbooks and Crew Agreements should be at Southampton Archives. If it has survived, the ships Logbook for the time in question, may give details on the conduct of the voyage, plus accurate times of arrival and sailing.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

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Offline 3sillydogs

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Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
« Reply #19 on: Friday 09 February 18 11:29 GMT (UK) »

This extract from Shelagh Spencer's book on the European Settler Population of Natal may shed some light on the "surety"

Government-sponsored immigration

The last addition to Natalís white population before the advent of the 1860s was the result of a Govenment scheme instituted in 1857, whereby the Government would pay the passages of intending immigrants as long as someone in the Colony would stand surety for the repayment of fares, in instalments, by the immigrants so introduced.


It is possible that this could have applied to Benjamin and his family. Sam Wolff may have been his prospective employer and had stood surety for his passage.


Sue
Paylet, Pallatt, Morris (Russia, UK) Burke, Hillery, Page, Rumsey, Stevens, Tyne/Thynne(UK)  Landman, van Rooyen, Tyne, Stevens, Rumsey, Visagie, Nell (South Africa)

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Offline JohnG_Swansea

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Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 10 February 18 06:30 GMT (UK) »
SPARTAN, Union Steamship Company, Official number 82421, Captain A M Watt. Sailed from Southampton 24/Jan/1884, arrived/sailed Plymouth for mails 25/Jan. Sailed Madeira 31/Jan Arrived Cape Town 10pm 16/Feb/1884.
 SPARTAN was built in 1881 by J & G Thompson & Co. at Glasgow with a tonnage of 3487grt, a length of 364ft 6in, a beam of 42ft 7in and a service speed of 12 knots.
Sister of the TROJAN she was completed for the mail run in 1881 but transferred to the Intermediate service in 1889.
In November 1899 she was used as a troopship during the Boer War. Surplus to requirements when Union-Castle was formed in 1900 she was sold to A. Fragala of Catania, Sicily and renamed Fume. After a further two years service she was broken up in Italy in April 1902.
Her 1884 logbooks and Crew Agreements should be at Southampton Archives. If it has survived, the ships Logbook for the time in question, may give details on the conduct of the voyage, plus accurate times of arrival and sailing.
Thank you seaweed for your contribution, you have clearly found a path to the passenger list for the journey of SS Spartan commencing in Southampton on 24th January 1884.  Are you able to provide that path so that I can include the document as a source to this 'event' in the Pope 'family tree'?
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Base Project: Benjamin D. POPE, (Railway Constructor, Natal) b: 1853 Stretham, Ely, d: 1928 Bath, Som't
Current Project(2017): John Humphrey (1819-1888) builder of Morriston Tabernacle and several other chapels across Swansea and south west Wales(UK)

Offline JohnG_Swansea

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Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 10 February 18 08:27 GMT (UK) »

This extract from Shelagh Spencer's book on the European Settler Population of Natal may shed some light on the "surety"

Government-sponsored immigration

The last addition to Natalís white population before the advent of the 1860s was the result of a Govenment scheme instituted in 1857, whereby the Government would pay the passages of intending immigrants as long as someone in the Colony would stand surety for the repayment of fares, in instalments, by the immigrants so introduced.


It is possible that this could have applied to Benjamin and his family. Sam Wolff may have been his prospective employer and had stood surety for his passage.

Sue
I thank you for this explanation, there is nothing in the bundle of papers that has been passed down to successive descendants of the Pope family of any surety.  However the explanation is clear and completely credible.

This thread has been most interesting and has added considerably to the background detail of this branch of the family tree.  Thank you indeed.

JohnG_Swansea
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Base Project: Benjamin D. POPE, (Railway Constructor, Natal) b: 1853 Stretham, Ely, d: 1928 Bath, Som't
Current Project(2017): John Humphrey (1819-1888) builder of Morriston Tabernacle and several other chapels across Swansea and south west Wales(UK)

Offline seaweed

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Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 10 February 18 16:44 GMT (UK) »
Thank you seaweed for your contribution, you have clearly found a path to the passenger list for the journey of SS Spartan commencing in Southampton on 24th January 1884.  Are you able to provide that path so that I can include the document as a source to this 'event' in the Pope 'family tree'?

The information I furnished was taken from various newspaper reports, primarily "Lloyd's List"
As far as I am aware, UK Outward Passenger Lists before 1890 have not survived. I am unsure of the position regarding Incoming Passenger Lists from South African Sources. I am sure that someone can give you that information.There may be mention of the Pope family contained in the vessels logbook especially if one of them suffered death or serious illness.
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

Offline JohnG_Swansea

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Re: British Railway Constructor: Natal, circa 1883~90
« Reply #23 on: Monday 12 February 18 07:49 GMT (UK) »
The information I furnished was taken from various newspaper reports, primarily "Lloyd's List"
As far as I am aware, UK Outward Passenger Lists before 1890 have not survived.
I am unsure of the position regarding Incoming Passenger Lists from South African Sources. I am sure that someone can give you that information.There may be mention of the Pope family contained in the vessels logbook especially if one of them suffered death or serious illness.
I have found UK Incoming Passenger lists on Ancestry, when I typed each of the four names of my target family, I was offered a number of similar names with a random selection of Port of Embarkation from around the world. I then realised that by using the various options on the screen I had access to bundles of lists sorted by year 1891, 1892, and so on, each bundle contained a series of randomly sorted pages for single journeys, so having selected my year of interest (1891) I worked through the bundle, ignoring the lists where the journey commenced in the Americas and paying particular interest to journeys commencing in Africa, India or China.

What I found interesting was that whilst each 'list' showed passengers individual port of embarkation, in many, if not most cases the list was 'transcribed' showing the same port of embarkation for every passenger on the list.  However the list containing the four names of my family of interest (see the opening post) were not found in the year of interest, nor the year either side.  So I shall now commence a search using the other techniques mentioned in your post.

Thank you JohnG_Swansea
Your National Flag/ Ensign can be added to the left-hand side of every post by using your Profile Settings
Base Project: Benjamin D. POPE, (Railway Constructor, Natal) b: 1853 Stretham, Ely, d: 1928 Bath, Som't
Current Project(2017): John Humphrey (1819-1888) builder of Morriston Tabernacle and several other chapels across Swansea and south west Wales(UK)