Author Topic: john carr and family puzzle  (Read 1372 times)

Offline rosie17

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 08 February 18 21:03 GMT (UK) »
I have just came in so will have a look tomorrow and get back to you

Rosie

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Offline ryan37

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #28 on: Friday 09 February 18 10:19 GMT (UK) »
Ok folks going back to basics

We know by the 1841 census there is a john carr and a Janet Carr  address Petrodie Village

John age 32 born Perthshire DOB 1809
Janet 30 born Perthshire DOB 1811

Jean 14  DOB 1827
James 6 DOB 1835
John 3.  DOB 1838

The Alexander is not born yet


Onto 1851 census


Janet is head age 43 DOB around 1808

No mention of john but same info on find my past website suggests she is a widow
Same address as previous census - Pitrodie village

We now have a son Andrew mentioned

Janet 43 (mother)

Andrew age 25 making DOB 1826 so minus the 10 years in census time was Andrew already out working in last records then moved home

Jean is not mentioned but again with a similar age to Andrew by 1851 she may well be out of household as she is 24

James is 15 - this adds up to last census

John is 13 - this adds up to last census

Charles Carr is 8 making him a new edition as far as census goes making DOB 1843

Alexander Carr is 6 making him another new edition with DOB around 1845


A lodger names charles (chas) Keir is mentioned with age of 22


So what happened to john as his last son is born around 1845 and he is not on the census in 1851

Alexander’s DOB ties in with death cert I have for him death in 1920 he is 78

Making DOB 1842/1843 I cant find birth certificate for him

But is the death the right one as it mentions his widow Betsy chalmers

Parents are  john carr - ploughman deceased and mother Margaret Carr m/s grannon

This is the mystery did john Carr the father leave Janet and marry again this lady Margaret?

Because I have a marriage certificate in   1870 for Alexander  aged 27 making birth around 1843 and betsy chalmers 22 who is also mentioned in Alexander’s death certificate

Alexander’s parents are at this time john carr deceased and mother Jessie Ferguson. Previously Carr M/s RObb , does this indicate that sometime after Alexander’s birth his mother Janet married another man with name Ferguson


So john the father either died or married another woman called Margaret?

Also need to find the Ferguson family Janet joined ?

 

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Offline rosie17

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #29 on: Friday 09 February 18 10:30 GMT (UK) »
Just been checking a death for a Margaret Brannan other surname Carr using fuzzy matching no records on Scotlands people ......I would say the marriage you have for Alexander Carr in 1870 would have the correct parents names as he would surely know who his mother and father is
I cant seem to find Alexander Carr on the 1861 /1871 census on An....y but there is a record on Scotlands people for an Alexander Carr in Longforgan age 9 which makes him younger ? ..I did download the image but it is very hard to read so I have reported the problem and hopefully will get a reply ...The brother Charles Carr you mentioned is also in that area ...Have you looked for Alexander Carr on the 1911 census to see who he was living with ? ..Also the death of the Mother Betsy Chalmers to see who registered the death ...As maybe they were separated when they are both at different addresses on the 1901 census or Alexander 

Rosie

Offline ryan37

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #30 on: Friday 09 February 18 10:58 GMT (UK) »
I see in 1891 Alexander is aged 50 estimated birth of 1841

Spouse Bridget

Alexander born in Perth with 8 children


I think we have the right Alexander but we need to work out what happened that his fathers wife’s name is Margaret rather than Janet  in the death of Alexander because marriage his mother is Janet which makes sense with census

The census records in my previous message suggests that between 1846 and 1851 John leaves the household
As he is not listed come 1851

Could this be when Janet becomes the Ferguson and John married the lady  Margaret Brannon ,John was recorded as deceased by 1870 and again mentioned deceased in 1920  Margaret also being deceased in 1920

Offline rosie17

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #31 on: Friday 09 February 18 11:04 GMT (UK) »
Yes it would appear this is the right Alexander Carr and his birth year does change in various census records ..As I said I don't see anything that matches up with Margaret Brannan /Carr ..or anything for Janet /Jessie Ferguson/Carr...Who were the witnesses on the marriage record for Alexander and Betsy ? ...I think it might be a case of trailing through records for other members of family to see if anything crops up  ???

Rosie

Online Wendy2305

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #32 on: Friday 09 February 18 12:10 GMT (UK) »
Who registered Alexander death ?
Probably the reason you can't find a birth for him is he was born before 1855 when registering became compulsory before then it is baptism records not all children were recorded in the church books for one reason or another and also I believe only 1/3 of the pre 1855 records survive.

You may never know what happened to his fathers John but it looks like he died somewhere between Alexander's birth and 1851 census Have you checked the orginal census from Scotland's People to check Janet's widow status

Have you checked for a marriage between a Janet Robb to ?Ferguson after 1851 in her village or close by

Have you checked the death or marriage certificates of Alexander's siblings to see what they have as their parents


Offline rosie17

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #33 on: Friday 09 February 18 13:44 GMT (UK) »
There is  death for a Charles Carr age 20 1862 registration district St Martin mother's maiden name Robb might be worth looking at

Rosie

Offline ryan37

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #34 on: Friday 09 February 18 15:43 GMT (UK) »
thanks i will get going with this soon , thanks for all you help

i have found an ancestry tree with john and janet having

ann sutherland carr birth 1826  and catherine carr 1832

neither are mentioned in the census 1841 and 1851


this is a big family and theres alot to work out


i will continue to work on this

any help you can give is much appreciated

Offline rosie17

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Re: john carr and family puzzle
« Reply #35 on: Friday 09 February 18 15:52 GMT (UK) »
Yes I seen that tree on Anc....y have not been able to match up anything for the rest of the family ...Getting the death for Charles will answer a lot of questions of its the right one  ???

Rosie