Author Topic: A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift  (Read 160 times)

Offline horselydown86

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A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift
« on: Tuesday 06 February 18 13:12 GMT (UK) »
I would like to ask for help please in completing a Latin Deed of Gift from 1503.

Using the University of Nottingham's examples, I have been able to transcribe and translate all but a few words.

The outstanding words are:

In Image 2 - the words between nup(er) and Thome

My best attempt is:  que nup(er) [habui?] ex liberac(i)o(n)e feoffamento & carte confirmac(i)o(n)e Thome

Is that right?  What is the translation?

In Image 3 - the word between inde and confecta.

In Image 4 - the word between assign(atis) and Thome.

I think this word is ip(s)ius.  If so, in context does it mean "...in the person of Thomas Belson...", because he is the one actually in attendance at the conveyance, or does it mean something else?

In Image 1 - the forename.

The Colet's aren't my family but I'd like to get his name right.

He is called Mather in this reference, which is almost certainly the event referred to in the text:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4cd8aea9-6cdf-48da-b9cd-424c5d5f6f48

Is it Mather or a declined form of Mathew?

Thank you very much for your help.

*******************************************************************************

For context, here is the full Latin text:

Sciant p(re)sentes & futuri q(uo)d ego Joh(an)es Colet filius & heres Mathei Colet nup(er) de kymbell defuncti in Com’ Buk

dedi concessi & hac p(re)senti carta mea confirmavi Ric(ard)o Copcote Gen(er)oso & Thome Belson de Aston Rowand in Com’ Oxon

yoman om(n)ia illa terras & ten(emen)ta mea prata pascua boscos pasturas reddit(us) & servicia cu(m) suis p(er)tin(entiis) in Norden in p(ar)ochia

de huchynden in Com’ Buk p(re)dict’ que nup(er) [habui?] ex liberac(i)o(n)e feoffamento & carte confirmac(i)o(n)e Thome Hawtre p(ro)ut in quad(a)m

carta inde [?] confecta pleni(us) continet(ur) h(ab)end(um) & tenend(um) om(n)ia p(re)d(i)c(t)a t(er)ras & ten(emen)ta p(ra)ta pascua boscos pasturas reddit(us) & s(er)vicia

cu(m) suis p(er)tin(entiis) p(re)fatis Ric(ard)o Copcote & Thome Belson heredibus & assign(atis) [ip(s)ius?] Thome Belson imp(er)p(etuu)m de Capital(ibus) d(omi)nis feod(i)

ill(ius) p(er) servicia inde debita & de iure consueta Et ego vero p(re)dict(us) Joh(an)es Colet et heredes mei om(n)ia p(re)dicta t(er)ras & ten(emen)ta

p(ra)ta pascua boscos pasturas reddit(us) & s(er)vicia cu(m) suis p(er)tin(entiis) p(re)fatis Ric(ard)o Copcote & Thome Belson hered' & assign' [ip(s)ius?]

Thome Belson contra om(n)es gentes Warantizabimus & imp(er)p(etuu)m defendemus p(er) p(re)sentes In cuius rei Testi(m)o(niu)m huic p(re)senti

carte mee sigillum meu(m) apposui hiis testibus Ric(ard)o hampden de kymbell Armig(er)o Joh(an)e Wellyborne Gen(er)oso Ric(ard)o Pryk

Will(iel)mo ffyppe & Joh(an)e Genon ac multis aliis Dat’ apud Nordern p(re)dict’ nono die ffebruarij Anno regni Regis henrici

septum post conq(uestu)m Anglie decimo octavo

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Offline Bookbox

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Re: A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 13:54 GMT (UK) »
In Image 2 - the words between nup(er) and Thome
My best attempt is:  que nup(er) [habui?] ex liberac(i)o(n)e feoffamento & carte confirmac(i)o(n)e Thome
Is that right?  What is the translation?

Yes, h(ab)ui -- not the easiest word to recognise from that abbreviation.
I would translate as: ‘... which recently I held from the release, feoffment and confirmation of charter of Thomas Hawtre ...’. I think it’s just a recital of how he had obtained the property.

In Image 3 - the word between inde and confecta.

michi = variant spelling of mihi (= to or for me)

In Image 4 - the word between assign(atis) and Thome.
I think this word is ip(s)ius.  If so, in context does it mean "...in the person of Thomas Belson...", because he is the one actually in attendance at the conveyance, or does it mean something else?

Yes, ip(s)ius. I think it’s stressing that the heirs and assigns are ‘of that Thomas Belson himself’, and not of any other person of the same name.

In Image 1 - the forename.
Is it Mather or a declined form of Mathew?

Mathei = genitive of Matheus (= ‘of Mathew’)

=====

Great document, super piece of transcription.




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Offline horselydown86

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Re: A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 14:14 GMT (UK) »
Many thanks, Bookbox; your help is appreciated greatly, as always.

Having the U of Nottingham examples to work from is a huge help to a bluffer & fraud like me.

Offline Bookbox

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Re: A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 14:16 GMT (UK) »
It's a huge help to all of us.  :)

Offline horselydown86

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Re: A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 14:50 GMT (UK) »
If I may trouble you further with a follow up question:

Is it valid to conclude that the phrase ...ip(s)ius Thome Belson... could mean that the only heirs and assigns in question are those of Thomas Belson and (therefore) not of Richard Copcote?

The 1566 Visitation of Buckinghamshire (Bellson of Brill on p.146) says that Thomas Belson was married to a daughter of the Copcote's.

Obviously this document does no harm to that proposition.  I haven't yet been able to identify whether this Richard is a father-in-law, brother-in-law or something else.

If the Gift expressly excludes the possibility of Richard having heirs, it would suggest that he might be the father-in-law and his daughter is his only living issue.




Offline Bookbox

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Re: A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 15:51 GMT (UK) »
I would say the heirs specified here are only those of Thomas Belson, and that the document doesn’t expressly refer to the heirs of Richard. He may already have provided for other children in other ways, with other property, or a marriage settlement, or similar. Perhaps I’m being over-cautious, but on the basis of this document alone I’d be reluctant to conclude that Richard Copcote had no living children other than the daughter who married Thomas Belson.

Offline horselydown86

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Re: A few words of Latin from a 1503 Gift
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 06 February 18 16:08 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your thoughts, Bookbox.  I take your point that the wording doesn't exclude the possibility of other children for Richard.

Still, on the basis of your first sentence the words in the Gift are at least a pointer that this Richard is more than just a business partner - that he has some stronger interest in Thomas Belson's heirs.

Thanks again for all of your help.