Cavalry training in the 1850s/1860s(17th Lancers/20th Hussars).

[Brickwall Demolisher]

Hi everyone thanks for looking / taking a interest in my posting.
Not sure what board to have put these queries on, no doubt it will be shifted accordingly. My first enquiry :-
  I have come across who I believe to be my G / G / Grandfather b1816/7 ?? Details are slightly different, but I'm sure I have the right person. JAMES WENTZELL / WENTZEL. Born STEPNEY / HACKNEY Middx. Listed as Army Deserter 12th March 1834 - Servant. 62nd Foot - 17th Regiment ?? This is my only finding of JAMES b1816/7 having any Army details, as he is on the 1841 (WINSILL) 1851, and 1861 censuses with family, occupation engineer / marine engineer / JOURNEYMAN. He dies in Croydon in the 1860's. Any info where I am able to access any further into his Army career and desertion records regarding JAMES would be much appreciated.

My second query is as follows :-
    This enquiry is again for a JAMES WENTZELL (WENTZEL) this JAMES (THOMAS) WENTZELL b 1839/40 St.Luke's who has a 20 year INDIA Army career from Sept.1857 to Jan.1878.Discharged for health reasons / Invalided.
 Regiment,691 Battalion 20th Hussars as Farrier / Engineer are his details. Any info of where again into his career, I could delve, much appreciated. This JAMES (THOMAS) WENTZELL  b 1839 is the son of the above JAMES born 1816. Who was christened JOHN JAMES but he changes it JAMES JOHN sometime before the 1841 census for some reason.

Many thanks again for looking,

Regards JUST J

[garstonite]

You are 2 years out with James Thomas Wentzel
Name     James Thomas Wentzel   
 Event Type     Birth Registration   
 Registration Quarter     Oct-Nov-Dec   
 Registration Year     1837   
 Registration District     St. Luke   
 County     London   
 Event Place     St. Luke, London, England   
 Volume     2   
 Page     169   
 Line Number     56 
...............................................................................
John James Wentzel born 15th May 1816

Name     John James Wentzel   
 Gender     Male   
 Christening Date     03 Jun 1816   
 Christening Date (Original)     03 JUN 1816   
 Christening Place     SAINT DUNSTAN,STEPNEY,LONDON,ENGLAND   
 Birth Date     15 May 1816   
 Father's Name    Gotleb Wentzel     
 Mother's Name    Hannah   

or do you already have these records ?
Looks like a brother

Name     Andrew Wm. Gottlieb Wentzell   
 Residence Place     Stepney, Middlesex, England   
 Gender     Male   
 Christening Date     17 Jan 1813   
 Christening Date (Original)     17 Jan 1813   
 Christening Place     Stepney, Middlesex, England   
 Father's Name    Gottlieb Wentzell     
 Mother's Name    Hannah
Official death record states  he dies 1887 aged 75 says born 1812 - as his baptism is mid Jan 1813 I presume he was born dec 1812

[Brickwall Demolisher]

 I have added this to a previous posting of mine to show what I have already?

If anyone is able to help,
I would like information, if this information is available ?? on what would be required of someone if they had enrolled for a 20 year Army career in the 1850's / 1860's??.
My ancestor (as above) is a JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL b 1837, he had a 20 year Army career starting from 1858/9 ?? which finished in 1878/9.
I have his discharge document which shows he was discharged for health reasons.
I'd like to know if at the time of the 1850/1860's, what would a new recruits program of training have been. My ancestor on his discharge ends up as a Sergeant in the 20th Hussar Regiment, he served some of his time in conflicts in India.

Am I wrongly to be in my own line of thinking on this  that he would he have had some sort of training in England first before being sent into conflict??, and if so where in England would this have been, and he being sent to, to do this training??
Are / were there any records kept as to this. If so have the records survived the time, and can they be researched into and where are they kept?
Thank you for taking the time to read my post,
 Best Regards Just J

Hi everyone thanks for looking / taking a interest in my posting.
Not sure what board to have put these queries on, no doubt it will be shifted accordingly. My first enquiry :-
  I have come across who I believe to be my G / G / Grandfather b1816/7 ?? Details are slightly different, but I'm sure I have the right person. JAMES WENTZELL / WENTZEL. Born STEPNEY / HACKNEY Middx. Listed as Army Deserter 12th March 1834 - Servant. 62nd Foot - 17th Regiment ?? This is my only finding of JAMES b1816/7 having any Army details, as he is on the 1841 (WINSILL) 1851, and 1861 censuses with family, occupation engineer / marine engineer / JOURNEYMAN. He dies in Croydon in the 1860's. Any info where I am able to access any further into his Army career and desertion records regarding JAMES would be much appreciated.

My second query is as follows :-
    This enquiry is again for a JAMES WENTZELL (WENTZEL) this JAMES (THOMAS) WENTZELL b 1839/40 St.Luke's who has a 20 year INDIA Army career from Sept.1857 to Jan.1878.Discharged for health reasons / Invalided.
 Regiment,691 Battalion 20th Hussars as Farrier / Engineer are his details. Any info of where again into his career, I could delve, much appreciated. This JAMES (THOMAS) WENTZELL  b 1839 is the son of the above JAMES born 1816. Who was christened JOHN JAMES but he changes it JAMES JOHN sometime before the 1841 census for some reason.

Many thanks again for looking,

Regards JUST J

[MaxD]

https://archive.org/details/ahistorythlance00fortgoog/page/n11 is a history of the 17th lancers which cover to period 1857-1864 when he served with them.

Histories of the 20th Hussars are conspicuous by their absence!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Hussars

Many amalgamations later, the King's Royal Hussars are the successors, the museum may be able to help with history.  This may help with training:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LEFFAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=british+army+manuals+victorian&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=training&f=false

Cavalry recruits were trained centrally,  Warley Barracks in Essex is mentioned a number of times in newspapers in 1857 as containing cavalry recruits and sending batched to India.
His record shows he was appointed shoeing smith in 1873 and farrier in 1874 for which he would have had specialised training at some later point in his service

May I suggest you ask the moderators to move your thread to the Armed Forces board where it may attract more militar attention with a change of title referring to cavalry training in the mid 1800s.
Click on "Report to Moderator".

MaxD

[Brickwall Demolisher]

Many thanks for all the information, its much appreciated, JUST J

[MarysInMyTree]

Hi
On family search there is an index to a record for James Wentzell b 1815 for Military Service in the UK Merchant Navy Seaman Records. I can't access any details.

There are also a couple of trees on there, not sure if you have submitted them?
Unfortunately I can't understand the site well enough to direct you to them.