Author Topic: Sally Hardy d/o William Hardy & Ann Moor  (Read 481 times)

Offline Fordyce

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Sally Hardy d/o William Hardy & Ann Moor
« on: Thursday 08 February 18 22:10 GMT (UK) »
Sally Hardy was bpt 9-4-1780 Wibsey Chapel (Bradford parish). Her father was a farmer at Wibsey Moorside, but in 1789 just a labourer then in 1791 a weaver, all same place. William Hardy said to be s/o Abraham Hardy & Martha Woodhead.
Siblings were all bpt same place:
William 1782; Thomas 1784; John 1787; Joseph 1789; James 1791.
I haven't found anything on these siblings - other than some speculation that James married an Elizabeth Topham in Leeds.

Anyone researched these families?

I am thinking she married John Bottomley, of Shelf, weaver, 25-9-1796 Halifax. Up until now everyone has claimed that this John Bottomley married Sally Hague (b 1777) on 14-5-1796 Bradford but this has all come from a single not always reliable source. The marriages are real but I have seen no evidence one way or the other as to which refers to my John Bottomley. The only evidence of her name is in the Dolphin Chapel burial register which states John Bottomley's wife Sally died 28-6-1819 age 39 - which fits with the 1780 birthdate. Nowhere have I seen a record with John Bottomley's wife's surname. Nor even her forename apart from that one burial record.

Keen to get to the bottom of this - John & Sally Bottomley are my 3xgtgdparents. John Bottomley is s/o James Bottomley & Hannah Kellett. The Hague (or Haigh) side is equally elusive and is of no help except that Haighs were also local.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,208
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sally Hardy d/o William Hardy & Ann Moor
« Reply #1 on: Friday 09 February 18 08:55 GMT (UK) »
I don't have an answer to your question, but:

John Bottomley and Sally Hardy - at marriage in Halifax, both said to be from Shelf.
John Bottomley and Sally Hague - at marriage in Bradford, no indication of residence.

If Sally Hardy was born 1780 (assuming she was baptised as a baby), then she would only have been 16 at marriage - no indication of being a minor in the records.

Assuming that the Hardy family were still resident in the Wibsey area, then I would have expected the marriage to be in Bradford, rather than Halifax.

Please excuse this question, but where is Dolphin Chapel?  I can't readily see it in the WYAS Collections Guide.

Your ancestor is a child of John and Sally Bottomley - so where was he/she born/baptised?  Any siblings and were they born/baptised in the same area?
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Fordyce

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sally Hardy d/o William Hardy & Ann Moor
« Reply #2 on: Friday 09 February 18 11:06 GMT (UK) »
Dolphin Chapel is the old Clayton Heights Wesleyan Methodist Chapel at Dolphin in Shelf. Address is Chapel Lane, off Highgate Road, Clayton Heights. Taken from Bradford Family History Society's CD "Great Horton Methodist Circuit transcription of Burial records & MIs". I think the Tordoffs founded the chapel and they had a significant presence in Wibsey Moorside. Indeed there looks to be a William Hardy illeg son of Ruth Tordoff, so these families obviously lived cheek by jowl.

You're right there's no indication of her being a minor upon marriage - she's called a spinster. But her burial record gives her age and I have to give that great weight. Anyway, her husband was under 21 and he isn't recorded as a minor. I have seen the term "spinster of a minor age" being used, so being a spinster doesn't necessarily preclude one being a minor.

The business of whether a marriage is Bradford or Halifax is not clear cut. The Bottomley family moved from Bradford parish to Halifax parish a little before 1796. But they lived in cottages at Soaper Lane Bottom which even today straddles Blackshaw Beck. One side is in Wibsey (Bradford) and the other side is in Shelf (Halifax). So a move of a few feet changes the parish. John Bottomley was almost certainly still with his parents, so was in Shelf, so his marriage to Sally Hardy is a bit more likely that to Sally Hague. Being in Shelf didn't prevent the Bottomleys using Dolphin Chapel - and in fact various family groups popped back and forth over the Beck from time to time. They had something like seven or eight cottages in all, mostly one-roomers, nearly all on the Wibsey side.

I now know the Hardy's two youngest children both died in 1791, buried in Wibsey Chapel. But then there's silence. I've also found their MI. There's no reason they hadn't crossed the Beck into Shelf by 1796.

There are no baptismal records for any of the eight children of John & Sally Bottomley, bar one: Nancy, recorded born in Shelf (in reality, Soaper Lane Bottom) and baptised in Bradford Parish Church. All the surviving children record in the censuses they were born in Shelf (although once or twice they forget/get confused and put down N Bierley). By 1814, the family were back in N Bierley; the two youngest, who died in infancy in 1814, were apparently born there - but even here confusion reigns - on one burial record the father is "John Bottomley Shelf of the Parish of Bradford". In 1822 he was bequeathed the cottage he was living in - in "Sooper Lane, Wibsey" so at least we know which side of the Beck he was living on then.

But when he died in 1847, his death registration states he lived at Revo, N Bierley, but his burial in Dolphin records him as living in Shelf. Never was meant to be simple, was it?!




Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,208
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sally Hardy d/o William Hardy & Ann Moor
« Reply #3 on: Friday 09 February 18 11:53 GMT (UK) »
Ooooohhhhh!!  Isn't family history fascinating.  I've now looked at the old maps of the area, so can sympathise with the dilemma of flitting backwards and forwards between the two parishes.  I think I would be inclined to go with the John Bottomley and Sally Hardy marriage BUT always bear in mind the other possibility.  :-\

Sorry not a great deal of help, is it  :-X

Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Offline Fordyce

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Sally Hardy d/o William Hardy & Ann Moor
« Reply #4 on: Friday 09 February 18 16:49 GMT (UK) »
No probs. Sally Hague has been the 'received wisdom' for years. Something will turn up - I hope!