Author Topic: Ward family 1700 backwards  (Read 632 times)

Offline trish1120

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #18 on: Monday 12 February 18 12:21 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for that Maiden Stone.
I agree with all you have posted as I had found that also.

What I am trying to say to you tracy123 is that I am pretty sure that the Thomas who married Ellen Sawyer was not born 1733.
There is no indication he was a Widower at the 1787 Marriage.

Please read through this again;


I can find at least 7 children to Thomas/Ellin-Ellen in Garstang 1787-1802 on LancsOPC.
On last 2 Father a Labourer, abode Nateby.

Burial: 28 May 1807 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Ellen Ward - Wife of Thos. Ward
Age: 46
Abode: Nateby

He looks to have remarried after Ellen died;

Marriage: 6 Jun 1815 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thomas Ward - (X), Widower, Garstang
Frances Longworth - (X), Spinster, Garstang

So unlikely to be the Thomas that died 1812.********


Burial: 16 Jan 1830 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Fanny Ward - Wife of THOMAS*** Ward
Age: 64
Abode: Nateby

So this Thomas was still alive in 1830

Hes is likely the one born c 1766 in Garstang 1841 Census.
Died 1847 age 83***

All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

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Offline trish1120

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #19 on: Monday 12 February 18 12:31 GMT (UK) »
Hi again tracey123.

I also gave you the Burials of a Thomas/Susannah WARD


Burial:
18 Apr 1812 St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Thos. Ward -
Age: 79**
Abode: Nateby

Burial:
23 Mar 1816*** St Helen, Garstang, Lancashire, England
Susannah Ward -
Age: 83****
Abode: Nateby

So born born c 1733**

Possible;
SUSANA Speakman christening:   21 May 1732, Pilling, Lancs, Father JOHN

So if Susannah died after Thomas how could he have remarried 1787?????


Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

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Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #20 on: Monday 12 February 18 15:04 GMT (UK) »
Children for Henry and Alice.

I have Thomas who was married to Ellen and susannah

I have Thomas's children John, Ann, William and Richard

Tracy
Are these the children of Thomas you mean?  All from baptism register of St. Helen, Garstang. Parents of all were Thomas & Ellen:
September 1787 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Catteral
May 1789 Ann Ward, daughter of Thomas & Ellin, abode Catteral
Jan. 1791 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellin, abode Catteral
June 1792 William Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
June 1795 John Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
Jan. 1797 Richard Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby


These 2 may have been children of the same couple:
Sept. 1799 Alice Moon Ward, daughter of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby
Jan. 1802 Edward Ward, son of Thomas & Ellen, abode Nateby

These births fit in well with the 1787 marriage and the burial of Ellen in 1807 at St. Helen's Garstang which were posted by trish on Saturday. Catterall and Nateby are both within 2 miles of Garstang so likely that Thomas moved around the parish, perhaps to different farms.
If the same couple, Thomas and Ellen were parents of all 8 of the children then they seemed to be very keen on the name William, 3 sons baptised with the name. This leads me to think that William was the name of a grandfather.

These seem to be burials of the first 2 sons named William:
29th July 1788 St. Helen, Garstang, Wm Ward son of Thomas, abode Catteral.
5th June 1791 St. Helen, Garstang, Wm Ward son of Thomas, abode Nateby.
This fits with presumed movements of the family around the district as taken from abode at baptisms.
If these were the deaths of the 2 sons baptised in 1787 and 1791 then the family moved from Catterall to Nateby during 1st half of 1791.
If my asssumptions are corrrect then I'm inclined to think that the father of Thomas was William, unless Willliam was Ellen's father, or one of them was very fond of a brother or an uncle called William. Do you know anything about Ellen's family?

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #21 on: Monday 12 February 18 15:31 GMT (UK) »
A quick look using "Ancestor Search" page of Lancashire Online Parish Clerks results in 24 baptisms, marriages or burials for the name Thomas Ward 1740-1780 within a 10 mile radius of Garstang and 21 for William. So plenty of men named Thomas Ward around.
It's possible his baptism wasn't recorded. (Remember the "deranged" Vicar of Cockerham, incumbent at the time, whom I mentioned in an earlier post.) He may have been from another parish. His parents may not have been C. of E. This was a staunchly Catholic area. There was a Quaker presence in Lancaster. There may have been Methodists and other Non-Conformists. NB Inclusion of a child's name in 18th C. of E.  Parish register is not proof the family were C. of E. Clergy kept account of children of other religious denominations too in order to provide statistics to Diocese or government. There was a tax on births twice during 18thC which Anglican Clergy collected, so they had to know and register all children born in their parish. Some clergy differentiated babies of other denominations in their records, others simply added them to the baptism register.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #22 on: Monday 12 February 18 16:11 GMT (UK) »
Marriage bond for marriage of Thomas Ward to Frances Longworth in Lancs. Archives:
5th Jan. 1815
Groom: Thomas Ward, age 50; occupation husbandman. Marital status not given. Abode: Place 1 Nateby; Place 2 Garstang.
Bride Frances Longworth, age 50; marital status/occupation spinster. Abode: Place 1 not given; Place 2 Garstang.

His age corresponds with the age trish found in other records, giving him estimated YOB 1764-6.

Keep these 2 in mind as well in case there's a connection, possibly to extended family:
1. Marriage bond 1760
Groom: Thomas Ward, age 24; occupation husbandman. Abode: Place 1. Inskip; Place 2 St. Michael's-on-Wyre.
Bride: Margaret Williamson, age 30; Abode: Place 1 Winmarleigh; Place 2 Garstang.
Bondsmen Thomas Greaves, Barnacre-with-Bonds, husbandman, Henry Whiteside, Garstang, innkeper.

2. Marriage bond 1768
Groom: William Ward, age 37; occupation blacksmith. Marital status not given. Abode: Place 1 Cabus; Place 2 Garstang.
Bride: Jennet Abbot, age 24; Abode: Place 1 Cabus; Place 2 Garstang.

Given that William was 37 at time of his marriage it occurred to me that he may have been married before and may have had children from previous marriage. If so he would be a candidate for a shortlist of possible father of Thomas Ward who was born c1765.

There were plenty of other Ward bridegrooms in Lancs., 150 marriage bonds. I picked out ones which seemed relevant by date and locality.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #23 on: Monday 12 February 18 16:30 GMT (UK) »
Another parish I would be inclined to look at is Kirkham. Plenty of Wards in parish registers. It's also stronghold of Moon. A child of a Thomas & Ellen baptised at Garstang had middle name Moon. That may have come from mother's family of course. It may have been a child of a different Thomas & Ellen. A Richard Ward married a Moon bride in 1800.
Inskip, abode of the Thomas Ward whose bride lived at Winmarleigh in 1760, is midway between Garstang and Kirkham.
Also consider Wyresdale, Preston and Lancaster for origins of your Ward family.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #24 on: Monday 12 February 18 17:56 GMT (UK) »
This 1847 death registration of Thomas Ward is worth attention. Thomas Ward aged 83, Garstang district.
Edit. I see trish already found this (Post #6)
He fits in well with the husband of Francis Longworth (married 1815) and the Thomas trish found on 1841 census.
If it was my ancestor I'd consider sending for a copy of the death certificate. I buy mine from Preston. It should be a photocopy of original certificate.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #25 on: Monday 12 February 18 18:31 GMT (UK) »
Returning briefly to the Thomas Ward who married Susanna Speakman in 1753 at Garstang.
Were there any children of their long marriage? The only likely one I saw on LAN OPC was Matthew Ward baptised at Cockerham 1760. Mother's name not mentioned so can't be sure. I checked burials for infants who may have died before baptism but there was nothing obvious. Thomas and /or Susanna may have belonged to another denomination.

There were a lot of Speakmans at Pilling. My 6xGGF may have been witness at a Speakman wedding at Cockerham.

Edit. I agree with trish that Thomas Ward who married Susanna was a different man from Thomas who married Ellen. 1st Thomas Ward was still married to Susanna when 2nd Thomas Ward married Ellen in 1787.
PS I'm blaming any spelling errors in previous posts on gloomy condition outside making it hard to see keyboard in spite of sitting by window.

Offline Maiden Stone

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Re: Ward family 1700 backwards
« Reply #26 on: Monday 12 February 18 19:19 GMT (UK) »
Among many bearers of the Ward surname in the parish of Garstang were Edward and Richard, buried 1751 & 1752 respectively, abode Nateby. There was an earlier burial of a Richard in 1742, also abode Nateby. These are worth looking at, considering that 2 sons of Thomas & Ellen were Richard and Edward. Possibly 2 names handed down the family? (A caveat here: I have umpteen Richards in 2 of my GM's and GF's lines from this region. It seems to have been a popular name. Most of mine had fathers and brothers called Thomas, John or William.)