Author Topic: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918  (Read 481 times)

Offline alison300

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1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« on: Wednesday 14 February 18 20:34 GMT (UK) »
I'm a bit confused and hoping someone can explain. 

I'm looking at the records for 2/Lt. Charles Thomas Squires, 4th Bn., Royal Sussex Regiment (Territorial), who died of wounds on 30 March 1918.  He is buried in France.  However, when I looked on the Long, Long Trail it looks like the Battalion didn't land in France until May 1918.  Please could someone put me straight.

*just found his MIC which looks like he was originally #2464 Hon. Artillery Company* still confused though :-\
Wright (West Ham, Stratford, St Lukes, Cripplegate,
Widenstrom (Chicago and Minnesota)
Swain (Cripplegate, St Lukes)
Wolfe (St Giles in the Fields)
Willis (Gt. Leighs, Margaretting, Gt. Waltham, Ilford, Brentford)
Bryant (Bristol, Glos)
Searle
Keyworth (Yorkshire)

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Offline mmm45

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 February 18 04:40 GMT (UK) »
He must have been attached to another batallion.Theres nothing on CWGC to add or on his medal roll.
He was comissioned from ranks as you can see on his MIC .
Widows details also on there there's also Soldiers effects entry on ancestry but nothing else.
He MAY have an officers record at Kew that isn't online yet

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fhac%2fidxcards%2f10337

He has documents on find my past for HAC who he joined in 1914 these again don't give details of which batallion he was with when he fell,just that he was gazetted to 4th batt Royal Sussex Reg

Ady
Lowe(Lower Gornall-Castleford)
Blackburn (Castleford)
Sidwell(Ledsham)
Fairburn(Hartshead)
Wood(Liversedge)
Tallon (Whittington Lancs/Hartshead West Yorkshire)

Researching all Great War soldiers from the Spen Valley of West Yorkshire Especially lads from the Cleckheaton Company of 1/4th West Riding Regiment.

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Online MaxD

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 15 February 18 08:39 GMT (UK) »
I agree with Ady.  Just to add that his commission was gazetted effective 29 Sep 17 on 10 Oct 17 and that his officers record (they are all not on line) is WO 374/64650. That will be the only sure way of finding out who he was attached to in 1918,

MaxD
Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Online MaxD

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 15 February 18 14:17 GMT (UK) »
Hold the front page!  Lt CT Squires was attached to 11 Battalion Royal Sussex and was reported wounded and missing on 30 March 1918 in the major German offensive Operation Michael to the south east of Amiens.

More later.

MaxD
Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Online MaxD

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 15 February 18 14:57 GMT (UK) »
The battalion suffered grievously in the opening attacks of March 1918 such that in April, only sufficient men remained to form two companies.  They had been under almost constant attack since 22nd March and on 30 March had been attacked at 6 am and forced to withdraw to the line of a sunken road joining Villers-Bretonneux and Aubercourt and then to the vicinity of Hangard Wood, to the west of Aubercourt.  Lts Squires and AW Neale were both wounded and missing.

I find no record of his initial burial.  The cemetery where he was finally laid to rest was not begun until June of 1918 and the cemetery details confirm he was among those buried elsewhere and who were brought into the cemetery later.

The war diary for 11 Sussex is WO 95/2582/1, it is also on Ancestry.  I haven't been able to spot his arrival (yet).

The location is easily found on Google Earth, search Villers-Bretonneux, Aubercourt is to the south and Hangard to the west of Aubercourt.

MaxD

Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Online MaxD

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 15 February 18 16:30 GMT (UK) »
He joined the battalion, it doesn't say from where, on 13 November 1917.  His commission was effective 26 September 1917.  1/4 battalion were in Egypt at the time he was commissioned.  Whether he went to Egypt and then to France or was sent at short notice to France - don't know.  His documents may well simply have not caught up with the change of his original assignment.  Again, his record may give the answer.

MaxD
Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline alison300

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 February 18 20:08 GMT (UK) »
Blimey I don't know what to say - THANK YOU MaxD and Ady. I never expected such a detailed reply. 

I have an ancestry subscription - what's the difference in coverage on findmypast?
How did you discover he was attached to 11th Battalion?  I will try and read the diary tonight.
Last question: how do I search the Gazette if I don't know the date someone was commissioned?
Thank you both very much - Alison
Wright (West Ham, Stratford, St Lukes, Cripplegate,
Widenstrom (Chicago and Minnesota)
Swain (Cripplegate, St Lukes)
Wolfe (St Giles in the Fields)
Willis (Gt. Leighs, Margaretting, Gt. Waltham, Ilford, Brentford)
Bryant (Bristol, Glos)
Searle
Keyworth (Yorkshire)

Online MaxD

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 February 18 21:47 GMT (UK) »
Series of assumptions and checks:
An officer of one battalion would most likely be attached to another of the same regiment.
Search CWGC for men of the Sussex Regiment killed about the same time in the area near the cemetery location
Gives a few battalions as possibilities
Check war diaries of each battalion around his time of death
Cross fingers
Find him in the second of the battalions I looked at.

Gazette - Enter name in the text search box - use the filters down the bottom on the left - limit the publication dates to war years or narrower if other clues to hand - limit edition to London (Edinburgh is identical so not needed) - use common sense to distinguish between same names -try different combinations of initials/full names.  Be aware that the hits that come up have been read by a machine so a man I was looking for called Ralls came up as Kalls and Rails  found him by using his first two fairly distinctive names not surname at all.

None of the above works like clockwork or in the same way each time, luck plays a part - the more I practice the luckier I get!

FindMyPast/Ancestry - difficult, depends on what your major interest is. Ask ten people the same question and you will get 10 answers. FindMyPast has no war diaries, no soldiers effects.  Ancestry "hides" some older service records on Fold 3 (more money) that can be found on FindMyPast, censuses are about the same with different ways of showing results, service records both drawing from same source material, FindMyPast has newspapers - I use both. 

Now I've told you all that, this message will self destruct to preserve the mystery.

MaxD
Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline alison300

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Re: 1/4th Battalion, Royal Sussex Regt. in 1918
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 15 February 18 22:09 GMT (UK) »
lol thanks MaxD.  I've really struggled with the Gazette - its not very user (or in my case idiot) friendly. will definitely practice more though :) 
Wright (West Ham, Stratford, St Lukes, Cripplegate,
Widenstrom (Chicago and Minnesota)
Swain (Cripplegate, St Lukes)
Wolfe (St Giles in the Fields)
Willis (Gt. Leighs, Margaretting, Gt. Waltham, Ilford, Brentford)
Bryant (Bristol, Glos)
Searle
Keyworth (Yorkshire)