Author Topic: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer  (Read 490 times)

Offline RareSheel

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Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« on: Thursday 15 February 18 20:09 GMT (UK) »
Can anyone help me please.
Samuel Popple born about 1837 Thorne Cambridgeshire and died in one of the Zulu Wars 22 Jan 1879
Rosina Kreemer (sometimes surname is spelled differently) born about  1830 Germany
They were married 12 March 1860 Peterborough Northamptonshire kind of marriage certificate from Ancestry.
I have found them in 1861 Peterborough Rosina was then called Rose their was a child Frederick Popple (son) born about 1857 Rotherham.
Samuel deserted  his wife and child in 1863 and was committed to prison for a month with hard labour.  Rosina and Frederick were chargeable to the common fund of the Union (I think this was the Peterborough Union).  Found this on FindMyPast Newspapers. I cannot find anything else of Rosina or Frederick after this or Frederick Birth.
 I have found everything of Samuel 2nd Marriage to Mary Search nee Avery. I have found everything of Mary and their children. 
Sheel                           

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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 15 February 18 20:49 GMT (UK) »
What was Samuel’s marital status when he married Mary?

What are the details from his marriage to Rosina in 1860?  Had she been married before (at 31 in 1861 she was plenty old enough to have been)?  Is there an indication in the criminal proceedings that Samuel was the father of Frederick, born (so it seems) quite a bit before their marriage?
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 15 February 18 20:52 GMT (UK) »
I see that Samuel was Private Samuel Popple of the 2nd 24th Regiment, who was killed at Isandhlwana on 22 January 1879, according to the 1935 newspaper announcement of the death of his wife Mrs Mary A. Popple, at Dover.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 15 February 18 21:13 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I have found them in 1861 Peterborough Rosina was then called Rose their was a child Frederick Popple (son) born about 1857 Rotherham.

So the chances are that his birth wasn't registered as Popple if they weren't married?

Quote
What are the details from his marriage to Rosina in 1860?

According to the marriage certificate, which is on Ancestry, she was a spinster, so I wonder what stopped them marrying when Frederick was born?

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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 15 February 18 21:18 GMT (UK) »
1861  RG 9; Piece: 965; Folio: 130; Page: 9

Samuel Popple          22
Rose Popple          31
Frederick Popple   4

I suppose if these dates are right, maybe his parents wouldn't give permission for him to marry as he'd have been 18 when Fred was born and she would have been 27.
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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 15 February 18 21:26 GMT (UK) »
I see that they were recorded as 22 (Samuel) and 28 (Rosina) when they married on 12 March 1860.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)

Offline RareSheel

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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 15 February 18 21:36 GMT (UK) »
Samuel has been to prison before so I wander whether he was in prison when they should have been married near when Frederick was born or that her parents didn't want her to get married to a person who has been in Prison.(just a thought) It looks like I will have to go to Rotherham at some time to see if I can find anything of Frederick that's when our son can take me.
Sheel

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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 15 February 18 21:45 GMT (UK) »
She would have been old enough to marry without consent of her parents. I see she was born on Germany - were her parents also in England?

How does he describe himself on his second marriage, divorce wasn't very common then and was expensive?

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Re: Samuel Popple and Rosina Kreemer
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 15 February 18 21:46 GMT (UK) »
George Frederick Kremer was privately baptised in the parish of St Mary, Peterborough on 20 Sep 1857.

Mother: Rose Kremer, of Peterborough, single woman.
Ayr: Barnes, Wylie
Caithness: MacGregor
Essex: Eldred (Pebmarsh)
Gloucs: Timbrell (Winchcomb)
Hants: Stares (Wickham)
Lincs: Maw, Jackson (Epworth, Belton)
London: Pierce
Suffolk: Markham (Framlingham)
Surrey: Gosling (Richmond)
Wilts: Matthews, Tarrant (Calne, Preshute)
Worcs: Milward (Redditch)
Yorks: Beaumont, Crook, Moore, Styring (Huddersfield); Middleton (Church Fenton); Exley, Gelder (High Hoyland); Barnes, Birchinall (Sheffield); Kenyon, Wood (Cumberworth/Denby Dale)