Author Topic: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.  (Read 588 times)

Offline rickyhpierre

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Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« on: Tuesday 20 February 18 19:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi

I have run into a brick wall with this, any help would be appreciated.

I am searching for the birth of Thomas John Batt from Barry Glamorgan, Wales.
Parents John Henry Batt, mother Martha Maria Begley.
His two siblings are Phillip Joseph Batt 29/Jan/1928 and Margaret A Batt 1933. He has 3 half siblings by his mother"s second marriage to James Williams

On his death certificate his brother Phillip Joseph Batt, gives his brother's birth date as 29/12/1929.
On two incoming passenger lists (Ancestry), Thomas gives his birth date as 29/12/1929.  On the 1939 register (FindMyPast) Thomas's birthday is given as 29/12/1930.   On his marriage certificate of 24/08/1957 he states that he is 27.

I tried a GRO search from 1928/1930 but they have no record of a birth.  I have searched through 1929 1930 and 1931 civil births on Ancestry but have come up with nothing.

He is not to be confused with the Thomas John Batt  24/01/1930  born in Orsett Essex to Albert Hector Batt And Violet Mary Lindsey.

Thanks Ricky
Rixon/Rickson: Pembrokeshire, Kent, Scotland, Australia, S.A, USA
Sherlock: Kent, Pembrokeshire, Glamorgan, Carmarthenshire, Canada Australia & NZ
Yorath:  Glamorgan
Thomas:  Carmathenshire, Langfihangel Aberbythych
Tyte: Gloucestershire, Glamorgan

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Offline groom

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 20 February 18 19:24 GMT (UK) »
Have you eliminated this one? Fits with a December 1929 birth.

Births Mar 1930   
Begley    Thomas   mmn  Begley    Cardiff
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline suzard

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 21 February 18 00:44 GMT (UK) »
Phillip Joseph Batt mother's maiden name Begley Jun qtr 1928 Cardiff

then Thomas Begley (as found by groom)

then birth registration Margaret A Begley mother's maiden name Begley  Sept qtr 1933 Cardiff 11a 645
then same reg and district Margaret A Batt mother's maiden name Begley Sept qtr 1933 cardiff 11a 645

possibility is that John Henry Batt & Martha Maria Begley did not marry
Maybe John Henry registered Phillip Joseph's birth  and told a little porkie?
and maybe he was present at the registration of Margaret A but told the truth??

I cannot find a marriage for John Henry and Martha Maria
and when Martha Maria married James Williams she used the name Begley (not Batt)

Certificates may help

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline groom

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 21 February 18 00:52 GMT (UK) »
Quote
I cannot find a marriage for John Henry and Martha Maria
and when Martha Maria married James Williams she used the name Begley (not Batt)

That, together with the double registration of Margaret and Thomas being registered as Begley, does suggest that she didn't marry John Henry Batt.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rickyhpierre

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 21 February 18 01:42 GMT (UK) »
Have you eliminated this one? Fits with a December 1929 birth.

Births Mar 1930   
Begley    Thomas   mmn  Begley    Cardiff

Hi groom,

No I had not seen this.

Although I  had found no marriage for John Henry Batt and Martha Maria Begley, but Phillip Joseph Batt's birth certificate had both  parents name with mothers maiden  name Begley  I thought that they were married.   Seems not!
I think I will have to re visit the GRO and order  a certificate for Thomas Begley.

Ricky
Rixon/Rickson: Pembrokeshire, Kent, Scotland, Australia, S.A, USA
Sherlock: Kent, Pembrokeshire, Glamorgan, Carmarthenshire, Canada Australia & NZ
Yorath:  Glamorgan
Thomas:  Carmathenshire, Langfihangel Aberbythych
Tyte: Gloucestershire, Glamorgan

Offline rickyhpierre

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 21 February 18 01:48 GMT (UK) »
Phillip Joseph Batt mother's maiden name Begley Jun qtr 1928 Cardiff

then Thomas Begley (as found by groom)

then birth registration Margaret A Begley mother's maiden name Begley  Sept qtr 1933 Cardiff 11a 645
then same reg and district Margaret A Batt mother's maiden name Begley Sept qtr 1933 cardiff 11a 645

possibility is that John Henry Batt & Martha Maria Begley did not marry
Maybe John Henry registered Phillip Joseph's birth  and told a little porkie?
and maybe he was present at the registration of Margaret A but told the truth??

I cannot find a marriage for John Henry and Martha Maria
and when Martha Maria married James Williams she used the name Begley (not Batt)

Certificates may help

Suz
Thanks Suz
Yes I think a certificate for both Thomas Begley and Margaret Batt are in order.  I know it is the same family as they lived at the address in Barry from at least 1939 to 1957.  I did see the Begley Williams marriage certificate and wonder

Thanks Ricky
Rixon/Rickson: Pembrokeshire, Kent, Scotland, Australia, S.A, USA
Sherlock: Kent, Pembrokeshire, Glamorgan, Carmarthenshire, Canada Australia & NZ
Yorath:  Glamorgan
Thomas:  Carmathenshire, Langfihangel Aberbythych
Tyte: Gloucestershire, Glamorgan

Offline suzard

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 21 February 18 02:10 GMT (UK) »
If you do order certs please let us know the outcome

Suz
Thornhill, Cresswell, Sisson, Harriman, Cripps, Eyre, Walter, Marson, Battison, Holmes, Bailey, Hardman, Fairhurst Noon-mainly in Derbys/Notts-but also Northampton, Oxford, Leics, Lancs-England
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rickyhpierre

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 21 February 18 06:14 GMT (UK) »
If you do order certs please let us know the outcome

Suz

According to freeBMD there are two entries for a Thomas Begley too, one dated 1930 and one in 1933.  On the 1930 page a handwritten note at the bottom says   "Begley Thomas    Begley    Cardiff 11a -see D'33". #COMMENT A similar record has been crossed out.

freeBMd is saying that this is a late entry and the first 1930 entry  refers to this:   Births 1933 Dec: BEGLEY,Thomas,Begley,Cardiff,11a,600.  So it would seem it is the same person.  I will order from the GRO tomorrow and post results when they arrive here in Colorado.
Cheers Ricky
     
Rixon/Rickson: Pembrokeshire, Kent, Scotland, Australia, S.A, USA
Sherlock: Kent, Pembrokeshire, Glamorgan, Carmarthenshire, Canada Australia & NZ
Yorath:  Glamorgan
Thomas:  Carmathenshire, Langfihangel Aberbythych
Tyte: Gloucestershire, Glamorgan

Offline nanny jan

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Re: Thomas John Batt 1929-1970 I can't find his birth.
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 21 February 18 06:58 GMT (UK) »
If you do order certs please let us know the outcome

Suz

Will have the order in tomorrow, and let you know what I find out.  It takes a while for me to get the certificates here in Colorado usually ten days after they are dispatched.
Ricky

Are you aware that you can now order a PDF for births/deaths at a lower price?
Howard , Viney , Kingsman, Pain/e, Rainer/ Rayner, Barham, George, Wakeling (Catherine), Vicary (Frederick)   all LDN area/suburbs  Ottley/ MDX,
Henman/ KNT   Gandy/LDN before 1830  Burgess/LDN
Barham/SFK   Rainer/CAN (Toronto) Gillians/CAN  Sturgeon/CAN (Vancouver)
Bailey/LDN Page/KNT   Paling/WA (var)



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