Author Topic: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!  (Read 313 times)

Offline DavidJP

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William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« on: Friday 23 February 18 22:20 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

According to an entry on the 'buckinghamshireremembers' website, William Henry Brigden (1876-1935) served in the army as follows:

Brigden, William Henry
Private
235328
11th Leics
Marlow

The sources quoted are:

Bucks Absent Voters List 1918 - Which gives an address of 'Gyldernscroft Gardens.'
South Bucks Free Press - Dated 9/2/17, which apparently states '17th Glos - Marlow call to arms'.

I haven't managed to get my hands on copies of these sources as yet (The Bucks Absent Voters lists are on FindMyPast but are not searchable by name and there are well over 100 pages/images! Also the South Bucks Press are only online (FindMyPast & BNA) up to & including 1899 & no later.)

The only William Henry Brigden that I can find in the WW1 records is a William Henry Brigden, 43089 a private in the Leicestershire regiment. On the service medal & award rolls it shows a previous unit of 11th Battalion Leicestershire regiment. This is also the only Leicestershire regiment index card for a William Henry/William Brigden that I can find. There appears to be no service record surviving either.

The address on the 1918 absent voters list is the correct address for him. I cannot find anything as regards his being in the Gloucestershire Regiment nor can I find anything as regards the regimental number given on the website.

I am confused as to what are the correct army/military details for him, some or all?

Any help sorting this out will be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

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Offline gortonboy

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #1 on: Friday 23 February 18 22:57 GMT (UK) »
You can search the absent voter lists by keyword....I entered the 25328 service number....and got two results for him.one in 1918....the next 1919. Both giving the Gyldernscroft address.
MCHUGH {mayo/manchester}   OHora,MCHALE{mayo/manchester /chicago}  KENNY{Manchester}   TIMPERLEY{wilmslow-bollin fee,Manchester} SMITH{manchester}  LEE{Colne,manchester,Cheshire} VENABLES {Styal.Cheshire} PAYTON {Staffs/Manchester}McCARTHY{TIPPERARY/MANCHESTER}  EAMES/AMS/HEAMES/HAMES/AYMES {Wilmslow/Manchester} Eames/Aymes  {Ireland/Manchester/Cheshire
Census information is Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

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Offline DavidJP

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 February 18 23:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Gortonboy,

Many thanks for that, brilliant! Much appreciated.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Offline philipsearching

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 24 February 18 13:15 GMT (UK) »
South Bucks Free Press - Dated 9/2/17, which apparently states '17th Glos - Marlow call to arms'.

I would not take this as definitive.  Transcriptions (either software or human) rely on image clarity, so a smudged image could well be misread.

All the best
Philip
Census information is Crown Copyright http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Towcester/Weedon - ALLEN, BASFORD, MAY       Fakenham - WILLIAMSON       Hempton - WRIGHT, LOVELL       Bethnal Green - MONKS and LARCHER
Southwark - MOUNT, BOWBRICK        Clonakilty to Southwark -  CRISPIN      Lambeth - LYON       Hoxton - WALTERS     Gwennap - JAMES, GRAY, TREWARTHA       Antrim - CORDNER, SANDYS         Peru - SOTELO, MOREY, BASELLI

Offline jim1

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 24 February 18 14:44 GMT (UK) »
Without a service record it's pretty impossible to give a proper answer. However it would make sense (to me anyway) if he was in the 17/Glosters as they were TF. In 1917 they were renumbered with 6 digit numbers.
The 4/Glosters were given the batch of numbers which included 235328.
It's possible he was then transferred to the 17/Glosters & then to the 11/Leics. & there's been a mix up with his number.
The 17/Glosters won't appear on his medal card as they were home service only.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01lmy/
So it would appear that his overseas service was with the 11/Leics.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline MaxD

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 24 February 18 15:00 GMT (UK) »
I would agree with Philip.  Best to see the original.

Equally, given that none of the 15 medal records that come up for 235328 is a man in the Leicesters (or the Gloucesters) or called Brigden, and, as you have found, the only William Henry Brigden is the Leicester man with the other number (there is one other, London Regiment and then commissioned into the Buffs), then an error attributing 235328 to William Henry Brigden is a likely scenario.  Without service records though, proving that 43089 is him is equally difficult.

That said, there would be a medal record only for men who served overseas - are you certain that your man did?

MaxD

Just seen jim1's insightful post  - somewhere there has been a c*ck up which makes likely a number of scenarios, all of which need service records to prove/disprove.
Double  Essex/Suffolk
Randle/Millington Warwicks
Sokser/Klingler Austria/Croatia

Offline DavidJP

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 25 February 18 18:54 GMT (UK) »
Hi Philip, Jim1 & MaxD,

Very many thanks for your replies, much appreciated.

Philip, if you are correct, that would not surprise me at all! ;D Transcriptions sometimes being as they are!

Jim1, my thanks for the info & link, much appreciated. Most interesting & very helpful.

MaxD,

(there is one other, London Regiment and then commissioned into the Buffs)

The chap you allude to above is a completely different William Henry Brigden & not my man.

That said, there would be a medal record only for men who served overseas - are you certain that your man did?

No I am not certain at all, my info comes purely from the 'Buckinghamshireremembers' website, where the address given matches my info (censuses etc).

The Absent Voters lists clearly show the Gyldernscroft Gardens address & his being 235328 11th Leics Regiment.

My thanks for all assistance, greatly appreciated.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)

Offline jim1

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 25 February 18 19:05 GMT (UK) »
Quote
235328 11th Leics Regiment.
I think you've probably realised by now that the number doesn't match the regiment.
If he was away at the time this info would have been given by the (acting) head of the household.
It's quite possible they didn't realise that he'd been given a new number when transferring from the Gloucs. Regt. to the Leics. Regt.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Offline DavidJP

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Re: William Henry Brigden WW1 Army Service Confusion!
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 25 February 18 19:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jim1,

I certainly am aware that the number doesn't match the regiment as you say. A mistake has definitely occurred!

My thanks again.

Kind regards

David
Aitcheson, Aldred, Batty, Bauer, Bone, Brewer, Dean, Doyle, Durant, Fife, Finney, Gibson, Graham/Grayham, Hall, Harrison, Hersey, Hill, Holliss, Hudson, Hussey, Insley, Kelsey, King, Laver, Longmore, Luke, Mellor, Newman, North, Parker, Phillips, Porter, Read, Robinson, Rowel, Spink, Sproxton, Steer, Stevenson, Tanner, Witty/Whitty, Warburton, Wood.
(For more information on the above surnames please check the Surname Interest Table below.)