A rather curious death

[Nifty1]

Thanks for that.

I have done so and confirmed who was there
The boy was there along with James W Marsh who is new to me. I think he was born in 1901.
I have not figured out who he was.

[Annette7]

James William Marsh (b.9/7/1901) was, it would seem, a brother of Elias Mackintosh Marsh (b.12/11/1895) - new GRO birth index shows the mmn for both was Peacock.

Did you ever identify who your Lily Brown was?

Annette

[heywood]

The boy was there along with James W Marsh who is new to me. I think he was born in 1901.
I have not figured out who he was.

You have James W as brother to Elias in a previous thread here but at that time seemed to think John A was James’ son.

From memory, according to the 1939 list, Elias and wife Lily were accompanied by Elias' brother James W.  and a man who was possibly James' son as it seem that he was born in 1935, the year James got married to Eva nee Embleton.  He died in 1965 in Durham and left a substantial sum of money to Eva and David Wiliam Marsh.

It is impossible to say if it was a semi-permanent arrangement at Bower Way. I know that after the war Elias and  Ramsay frequently drove to Durham.

[Nifty1]

Lily Brown was my grandmother. I met her no more than half a dozen times in my life. I have only come to know her through pictures and what others said or wrote about her. I want to know more.

[heywood]

Lily is mentioned in several of your posts and I can see that you are doubtful of some of the information you have been given.

I see in 2012, you were advised to get the marriage certificate.
Did you ever purchase it? This would give you her father’s name.

What certain information do you have about her?

I think you mention Wokingham somewhere. Is this her death?

Lily Marsh, 87 yrs birth date 9th January 1903.
Death November 1990 Reading and Wokingham vol 19 pg 544

[Nifty1]

I have a large degree of circumstantial evidence who Lily’s parents were. I am certain they she owned a house at Whistly Close or drive off of Ralph’s Ride near Bracknell about 1980 Ramsay used to live in it. I am not sure when he went to live in the west end of London where he lived until his death in 1985. The Informant on his death cert is not much use either as they are dead.

[Annette7]

From what I have found (confirmed by some trees online) Lily Brown was born 9/1/1903, dau. of William Brown and Hannah Irwin - they married Dec.qtr.1902 Auckland, Durham (birth reg.Mar.1903 Auckland)

Although Hannah was single when married, in 1901 she  has 7 illegitimate children and also living with her is grandfather Nicholas Spencer.   Besides Lily, William and Hannah had 4 more children before the next census - Margaret Sept.qtr.1904, William Sept.qtr.1906, Thomas Mar.qtr.1909 and Charles Dec.1910.

Think the 'Sid' you refer to is the next child born - birth registered as Sydney Brown in June qtr.1913 Auckland, mmn Irwin - he was born 30/5/1913 and died as Sydney Brown in Sept.1970.   However, I cannot find a likely marriage to a Florence (either as Sidney or Sydney) before 1939 when it is known they were together, nor can I find a likely death for her in Durham.   Perhaps they lived together but never married - or, married just before the 1939 register taken in September and the marriage didn't show in index until the Dec.qtr.   There is a marriage of a Sydney Brown to a Florence Black in Dec.qtr.1939 Newcastle upon Tyne??

Annette

   

[Nifty1]

Thanks for that Annette. brilliantly deduced. I have had the idea that they were probably living together for some time. I visited distant relations some time ago and they gave me the idea that Sidney was A Brown and mentioned the name Irwin.  It was a long time before I thought that Sid might not be married to Flory and wondered why they should both be Brown’s.

[heywood]

That sounds favourable Annette but I still think the marriage certificate would help re her father.

There are several trees online which show her parents as:

John Brown and Sarah Jane Grey (born Staffordshire here)
William F Brown and Ann (Patterson)
Nicholas Spencer and Hannah (Irwin) Brown
William Brown and Hannah Irwin

I haven’t examined the trees but the owners presumably accept them.