Author Topic: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861  (Read 1780 times)

Online Tickettyboo

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Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« on: Saturday 24 February 18 15:34 GMT (UK) »
I see that PRONI have records from this church Ref: CR3/34

I have a William Cochrane who married a Jane Sterling (Stirling/Starling) at Berry Street,later St Enoch's Presbyterian on 18th February 1861.

Does anyone have experience of these registers and can tell me what sort of information may have been recorded for the marriage? e.g. is a mother's name included and well as a father's name ? would there be actual ages for bride and groom, other than 'minor' or 'of full age'?

If there is even an outside chance of further information other than that on the civil record, I can ask PRONI for a quote for obtaining a copy (am too far away to visit)

Thanks

Boo

Offline Sinann

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 24 February 18 16:02 GMT (UK) »
I'm never sure where the records on FamilySearch come from but if it's from the church it looks like the mother's aren't recorded and one or both of the couple was 18 years.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG6Y-GPF

You have to sign into to FamilySearch now to see the record.

Online Tickettyboo

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 24 February 18 16:17 GMT (UK) »
I'm never sure where the records on FamilySearch come from but if it's from the church it looks like the mother's aren't recorded and one or both of the couple was 18 years.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG6Y-GPF

You have to sign into to FamilySearch now to see the record.

Thanks Sinann,
if you look at the document information (right hand side of that page) it says the info came from LDS Microfilm 101423. Looking at that film no. in the FS Catalogue says the info came from
The General Registry Office of Ireland. So, its the civil marriage record (which I do have)
The civil marriage record says that William was 18 and Jane was 'full age'. I have been wondering if the registrar transposed the ages when he wrote out the marriage entry.

Haven't yet found a death for William but Jane's death record has her as 40 when she died in 1885, there is a possible (transcription I don't have the original) baptism record for Jane in 1844 which (if the age at death is correct) would mean she was born c 1843 +/- a year.

The original marriage record may or may not help to clarify my query, and perhaps answer another query about her Dad's name. The registrar seems to have been taught writing by a drunken spider, the bride's father's name looks like it says 'Jane' Sterling. I have a choice of two possible Sterling fathers, one is John and one is James.
One of the witnesses, Marcella Sterling, (who I can see later, English, records for which indicate a family connection of some degree) was married in Liverpool and her Dad's name was John Sterling. I am now also trying to ascertain if she was Jane's sister or possibly a cousin.

I'm thinking of taking up an easier hobby, like knitting fog! :-)

Boo

Offline Sinann

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 24 February 18 16:55 GMT (UK) »
They have it more than once than, this one is obviously from the Civil Registration as it's Belfast
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QGV8-BDXV
but the other says Shankhill, so have they linked the church and civil record ??? this sort of thing always makes me very unsure with FamilySearch.


Online Tickettyboo

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 24 February 18 17:15 GMT (UK) »
Though the other record mentions Shankhill, the document info is still saying the same film no and source (GRO of Ireland)

If it had been transcribed from the parish record the reference would (I assume) say so. Plus a search of the catalogue for Belfast, Antrim does not bring up any church records that would match this church - in fact they have very few church records for Belfast.

The civil marriage register entry, which I have, does say "Marriage solemnized at Belfast in the Parish of Shankhill in the County of Antrim" , further down it says "Married in the Berry St Church according to the Form and Discipline of the Presbyterian Church".

So that is what I would expect, Shankhill was the civil parish (which would be the Established Church parish) and Berry St Presbyterian was the religious denomination parish.

 I think its still likely that the LDS database (possibly transcribed twice as they seem to double key everything to compare) has two transcriptions of the same civil record, one transcriber recorded the civil parish parish and the other didn't ?

It is confusing, but I am reasonably sure that the LDS do not have films of the Berry St Presbyterian registers and that both of these transcriptions came from the civil marriage registers at the GRO

Boo

Online Elwyn Soutter

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 24 February 18 17:38 GMT (UK) »
I see that PRONI have records from this church Ref: CR3/34

I have a William Cochrane who married a Jane Sterling (Stirling/Starling) at Berry Street,later St Enoch's Presbyterian on 18th February 1861.

Does anyone have experience of these registers and can tell me what sort of information may have been recorded for the marriage? e.g. is a mother's name included and well as a father's name ? would there be actual ages for bride and groom, other than 'minor' or 'of full age'?

If there is even an outside chance of further information other than that on the civil record, I can ask PRONI for a quote for obtaining a copy (am too far away to visit)

Thanks

Boo

When someone married in Ireland, 2 copies were made of the marriage certificate. One stayed with the church and the other was sent off to GRO (and became the civil version). Both should be identical.
What PRONI have should be the church version.

The format for Irish marriages is identical to English certificates, so no mothers names. Age may be given but often its just full age or minor. It depended on the Minister’s inclinations.
Elwyn

Offline Sinann

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 24 February 18 17:39 GMT (UK) »
I'm not saying it is the church record, I'm saying I find it very confusing. Your are probably correct, I just don't know and sorry it doesn't answer your original question.

Online Tickettyboo

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 24 February 18 17:45 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Elwyn.

I was hoping that no matter what the marriage certificate (and copy for the GRO) said, the church register like the RC ones I have seen may include more detail.

Ever a straw clutcher though, I will send for a copy of the church register entry in the hope that it may at least be neater, more easily read writing which may help clarify the bride's father's name.

Boo

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Re: Berry Street Presbyterian Church, marriage 1861
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 24 February 18 17:52 GMT (UK) »
I'm not saying it is the church record, I'm saying I find it very confusing. Your are probably correct, I just don't know and sorry it doesn't answer your original question.

Oh don't be sorry, I really appreciate your time and help. It was a valid point for me to think about!

Boo