Author Topic: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.  (Read 1954 times)

Offline LizzieL

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #27 on: Friday 02 March 18 13:33 GMT (UK) »
odd one - but there is a birth reg Liverpool district for Johanna Heim (female) in Q4 1878. Mother maiden name Hofaf (sic). Is this John with the Germanic / Latinised version of name (family were RC), which the registrar confused with the female Joanna? Hofaf as a name doesn't seem to be likely - not a single one on freebmd - but not a million miles from Fanhof. Jacob and Dora snr both from Germany, we don't know when they came to England, but likely they still had German accents and may not have spoken English very well in 1878
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

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Offline LizzieL

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #28 on: Friday 02 March 18 13:37 GMT (UK) »
Jacob Heim snr buried 10 Aug 1890 age 50. Address 22 Eldon Place. Burial at Ford cemetery Catholic burial register
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

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Offline LizzieL

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #29 on: Friday 02 March 18 13:42 GMT (UK) »
Jacob Heim jnr features on several crew lists. Addess in 1901 is 11 Eldon Place, by Nov 1907 moved to 17 Arthur street
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Online heywood

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #30 on: Friday 02 March 18 13:47 GMT (UK) »
One to ponder

Baptism - in Latin
Rosa Anna Hiem birth 17th December 1884 baptised 28th December 1884.
Father: Jacobi Hiem
Mother: Dorae  Dibbert  ??? :-\


Dorothea Hinn baptism 4th August 1872 at St Josephís - motherís name Hornhuff.
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Offline LizzieL

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #31 on: Friday 02 March 18 13:55 GMT (UK) »
Has anyone looked at the prison records in the link given earlier?

https://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=15927

If this is the same man we have John / Johann Heim born Liverpool of German parents, joins Army, last seen in Liverpool in 1901 witnessing brother's marriage, but not found on 1901 census. (I can't find the address given on marriage record, there seem to be a few numbers missing from Silvester road). Goes to NZ in earlier 1900's commits a few offences in Wellington and Auckland, goes to Australia in 1915 on the Somerset, joins Army. More offences committed in 1920s etc.
Changes his name at some point, possibly when he left England, pretended to be of Irish origin rather than German. Maybe he had been living with Irish communities in Liverpool and picked up an Irish accent.
Could one man do all this or do we have two people?
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Online heywood

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #32 on: Friday 02 March 18 13:58 GMT (UK) »
Other variations from transcriptions

Jacobus Hyam birth 25th December  1873 baptised 4th January 1874 St Joseph's
Father: Jacobi Hyam
Mother: Dord Fanhaher

Matilda Hyam  1881 mother Dora Fornhough

Mary Barbara Hym 1876 mother Dora Forenhof

I canít see one for John/Johannus etc  :-\
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Online heywood

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #33 on: Friday 02 March 18 13:59 GMT (UK) »
I would think it is the same man Lizzie - mother and sister plus address seem to support this.
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Offline Christine53

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #34 on: Friday 02 March 18 14:25 GMT (UK) »
Gosh , this has moved on apace since I last looked !

From the Liverpool Electoral Registers for 23 Eldon Place :

1929-1930 Patrick Cleary Rose Ann Cleary
1934-1935      "       "        "         "
1920            Dora Smith  John Lynskey   
1925            Dora Smith John Lynskey Charles Quinlan Arthur Melia

I see that Quinlan and Cleary have been mentioned above and I wonder about Dora Smith ?
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Offline LizzieL

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #35 on: Friday 02 March 18 14:40 GMT (UK) »
John's baptism as Joannis Haim - born 11 Oct 1878 bapt 20 Oct 1878, father Jacobus, mother Dorae olim Fanhoff.

added
godparent Johannis Baner and Mary Gibbons in case they turn up somewhere
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate