Author Topic: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.  (Read 8097 times)

Online heywood

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #36 on: Friday 02 March 18 14:49 GMT (UK) »
John's baptism as Joannis Haim - born 11 Oct 1878 bapt 20 Oct 1878, father Jacobus, mother Dorae olim Fanhoff.

added
godparent Johannis Baner and Mary Gibbons in case they turn up somewhere

The Naval application gives birth as 12th October 1876 - so looks reasonable if he was lying about his age, just adding a couple of years on.
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Online Christine53

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #37 on: Friday 02 March 18 14:49 GMT (UK) »
1901 3410/113/13

David and Mary Thompson and children are at 11 Eldon Place, Liverpool.

Cathy,
I think you have found a very likely family. Mary, though, isn’t at that address later and has possibly remarried  :-\

Heywood

I think this is Mary Thompson , now calling herself Mary Hayde , with ' husband' Denis , 2 Hayde children and 2 stepsons John and Jacob Thompson :

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRP-YXW

Mary Thompson married Denis Hayde in 1915 in Liverpool 8b 282
Mary Hayde 37 died Mar 1916 Liverpool 8b 38

Census information  Crown Copyright
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online ALAMO2008

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #38 on: Friday 02 March 18 15:44 GMT (UK) »
Wow Thanks everyone for your time and input what a load of info found in such a short space of time. So many leads to follow.   

I first became interested in this man about a year or so ago when I read an Article in "Ireland's Own" Weekly Magazine, that reported the Life of John Barney Hines from Liverpool born 1873 ending up with a Bounty on his Head from the Kaiser in WW1
As my own Ancestry research was drying up. I thought I'd spend some time trying to research this man's early Liverpool Life.
 As you can see not easy, hence I asked for your help in this Forum, which has always come up trumps for me in the past.
 Can't Thank you all for all this info.
 Alamo



CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline Blue70

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #39 on: Friday 02 March 18 20:20 GMT (UK) »
Well done everyone you've built up a good case for him being John Heim born in Liverpool on 11th October 1878. Mother is Dora as expected, father is Jacob and his sister Mary married David Thompson on 17th December 1893 at St Nicholas CE Liverpool:-

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9Y9-WQN1-R?cat=261432

It's a surprising outcome for him to be the son of German immigrants and quite understandable that his roots were conveniently forgotten. My own family managed to forget its German roots around the time of WW1.


Blue

   


Offline Blue70

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #40 on: Friday 02 March 18 21:26 GMT (UK) »
odd one - but there is a birth reg Liverpool district for Johanna Heim (female) in Q4 1878. Mother maiden name Hofaf (sic). Is this John with the Germanic / Latinised version of name (family were RC), which the registrar confused with the female Joanna? Hofaf as a name doesn't seem to be likely - not a single one on freebmd - but not a million miles from Fanhof. Jacob and Dora snr both from Germany, we don't know when they came to England, but likely they still had German accents and may not have spoken English very well in 1878

The German for John was Johann or Johannes so it's an easy mistake to make. They may have said Johannes and this was misheard as Johanna. My 3 x Great Grandfather's first and middle names were Johannes Peter or Johann Peter but as was the German custom he was usually known by his middle name Peter on the English records. His full name would only appear on one or two of his children's marriage records and in the English form as John Peter.


Blue

Offline garstonite

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #41 on: Saturday 03 March 18 04:26 GMT (UK) »
1901 marriage Jacob Heims to Sara Hutchinson was at Our Lady Reconcilliation
1900 marriage Rose Ann Heims to Patrick Cleary - same church
Rose Ann Hiem ( no s on the end and I and e wrong way round ) same church - baptism 1884 mother Dora Dibbert - so Rose married at 16 possibly 15 years of age .
all on www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk   .. 4 marriages for Heim Heims - all at the same church O.L.Reconcilliation
  :)

1897 775 O L RECONCILIATION DOROTHY DOROTHEAM HEIM / CHARLES CAROLUM QUINLAN

1899 17 O L RECONCILIATION JOHN JOANNEM HEIM / NORA HANORAM MAHER

1901 805 O L RECONCILIATION JACOB JACOB HEIMS / SARA SARAM HUTCHINSON
 
1900 763 O L RECONCILIATION ROSE ANN ROSANNAM ANNAM HEIMS / PATRICK PATRICIUM CLEARY ..
oakes,liverpool..neston..backford..poulton cum spittal(bebington)middlewich,cheshire......   sacht,helgoland  .......merrick,herefordshire adams,shropshire...tipping..ellis..  jones,garston,liverpool..hartley.dunham massey..barker. salford

Offline Blue70

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 03 March 18 16:12 GMT (UK) »
Is anyone planning to do a follow-up on this new information? The wiki entry will need editing but will need source references to support the changes. I'm still looking through the information to see if the evidence is strong enough for me to attempt an edit to the wiki page. I've edited similar pages in the past.


Blue

Offline sugarbakers

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 03 March 18 17:14 GMT (UK) »
Blue kindly pointed this thread to me because of the sugar connection ... both the 1871 and 1881 censuses show Jacob (senior) to have been working in one of the Liverpool sugar refineries.

Surprisingly, Jacob (Hime) and Dora (Fonhof) were married at St Mary Highfield Street Liverpool in MarQ 1870 [Anc], however the 1871 census shows Jacob to have an eight year old daughter Matilda (she died 1878 aged 15), whilst the 1881 census shows a daughter Matilda 2mo.

Both Jacob and Matilda had been born in Bavaria, Dora in Prussia. The GRO shows a death for a Mary Ann Heim in 1868 aged 30 in Liverpool, with FamilySearch giving a probable marriage as -
Jacobum Heim = Maria Anna Schmitt  26 Nov 1861 Katholisch, Glan-Muenchweiler, Pfalz, Bavaria.
Almeroth, Germany (probably Hessen). Mawer, Softley, Johnson, Lancaster, Tatum, Bucknall (E.Yorks, Nfk, Lincs)

Sugar Refiners & Sugarbakers ... www.mawer.clara.net ...
50,000+ database entries, 270+ fatalities, 210+ fires, history, maps, directory, sales, blog, book, 500+ wills, etc.

WDYTYA magazine July 2017

Offline Blue70

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Re: John Hines Birth Brickwall help please.
« Reply #44 on: Saturday 03 March 18 20:10 GMT (UK) »
Dora was a Lutheran (from Hanover according to the 1901 census when she was then Dora Wait) there is an adult baptism for her showing that she converted to RC in 1873:-

Dorothea Heim, a Lutheran
Born: 24 January 1844
Baptised at SFX RC church Liverpool: 28th September 1873
subconditione Dorothea Heim, late Vonhoff daughter of Henry Vonhoff and Catherine Maier
Godmother/sponsor: Eva Schneider


Blue