Author Topic: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?  (Read 802 times)

Offline George Clegg

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Good Evening everyone

I'm hoping some sort of photo analyst may be able to identify the location of this funeral.  Is it in the UK (Nottingham? Preston?) or France? Date?

Nothing on back of photo.

Should any forum member be able to enhance this picture I'd also be very grateful

Thanks for your help!!

 L23579 Samuel George Barratt (1899-1934) (my 1st cousin) Royal Field Artillery is the gun carriage lead driver.

Service Detail

Details declared at attestation in Nottingham 2 May 1915:

·         Declared Address: 13 Shepherd St, Wolverhampton

·         Declared Age as at 2 May 1915: 19 years 9 months (Actual Age 16 years 4 months)

·         Declared occupation:  Town Carter

2nd May 1915 – 7th January 1916 – Home Service

12th August 1915 – Posted as a Driver with 188 (CLXXXVIII) Brigade Royal Field Artillery (who were raised in Nottingham).

21st August 1915 – Posted as a Driver with B Battery 152 (CLII) (Nottingham) Brigade Royal Field Artillery who were assigned to 34th Division.

8th January 1916 – 7th June 1916 – France (151 days)

On 3 January 1916 embarkation orders arrived; by 15 January the 34th Division had crossed the Channel and was concentrated at La Crosse, east of St Omer.

The Division then moved South East towards Beaumont Hamel where they began to prepare for the Somme offensive in July.  The Division then remained on the Western Front for the remainder of the war.

May 1916 - George contracts an illness and is returned home in June

8th June 1916 – 14th May 1918 – Home Service

8th June 1916 – Admitted War Hospital Bath.  (Discharge date not known).

30th Aug 1916 – His mother Teresa sends letter with Birth Certificate to the War Department declaring him under age.

23 Sep 1916 - Transferred to Class W Army Reserve (Under age) Posted 50th Reserve Brigade

1 Feb 1917 – 18th Birthday

1st Feb – 2 Feb - 346 Brigade RFA Doncaster - Absent (late back from leave) – 7 days detention.

26th April 1918 – Preston - Absent (late back from leave) - 7 days Field Punishment No 2 and deducted 21 days pay.

15th May 1918 – 4th October 1918 – France (143 days)

15th April 1918 – Posted as a Driver C Battery 290 (CCXC) Brigade Royal Field Artillery who were assigned to 58th (2/1st London) Division.

12th June 1918 – Lance Bombadier

26th August 1918 – Promoted Sergeant

2nd October 1918 – No 9 General Hospital – Wound Right Leg (No 9 General Hospital located champ de courses on the outskirts of Rouen)

58th Division were involved in the following actions during the period of George’s attachment to the Division.

o   The Battle of Villers-Bretonneux (24-25 April)

o   The Battle of Amiens (8-11 August)

o   The Battle of Albert (22-23 August) (a phase of the 2nd Battle of the Somme)

o   The Second Battle of Bapaume (31 August – 1 September) (a phase of the 2nd Battle of the Somme)

o   The Battle of Epehy (18 September) (a phase of the Battle of the Hindenburg Line)

It could be that George was wounded in the Battle of Epehy or just after and then evacuated via the casualty evacuation chain to No 9 General Hospital on the 2nd October. 

5th October 1918 – 31st February 1920 – Home Service

24th February 1918 – Transferred to Class Z Army Reserve

27th January 1919 – Protection Certificate issued from Bagthorpe War Hospital Nottingham.

It may be that as George enlisted in Nottingham (underage!) then he was transferred to the Nottingham War Hospital on return to the UK from France.

31st March 1920 – Discharge
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Offline philipsearching

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 03 March 18 11:54 GMT (UK) »
I don't think there's enough scenery to make a positive statement, but my feeling is that the houses and lamp post on the left look British.

I tried zooming in on the soldiers and saw no medals or medal ribbons so this would fit with a funeral before c1920.

Would one expect a lead driver to have at least one rank stripe?  If so, the earliest date would (going by the service record) be June 1918.

Putting the information together, I would expect the funeral to have been in Britain between October 1918 and March 1920.

Hope this helps
Philip
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Offline Treetotal

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 03 March 18 12:28 GMT (UK) »
Hi George and welcome to Rootschat...for a better chance at both ID and restoration work, a scan at a resolution of 300dpi and saved as a .jpeg file would bring the best results.
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Offline George Clegg

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 03 March 18 16:44 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for your feedback.  It's not a great print.  Here it is at 300dpi and as a jpg

Online jim1

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 03 March 18 17:08 GMT (UK) »
This man has no stripes so before becoming an L/Bdr. This gives a very narrow window of 1/2/18 - 15/5/18.
Agree UK & probably a senior Officers funeral.
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Offline Geoff-E

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 03 March 18 19:12 GMT (UK) »
I'm thinking that this is a procession departing from a railway station.
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Offline George Clegg

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 03 March 18 19:40 GMT (UK) »
I agree Jim and Geoff, the body of a deceased local Lancashire great or good arrives by train transferred to gun carriage funeral cortege.  I'm beginning to think this may be somewhere in Lancashire close to or actually Preston in early 1918 and before Samuel deployed to France.  Is the big Pylon some sort of clue I wonder? 

Offline aus*jen

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 04 March 18 02:45 GMT (UK) »
Apart from the chap in the top hat and passengers in the carriage behind all spectators seem
to be in uniform.
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Offline Wiggy

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Re: Dvr Samuel Barratt RFA as a Funeral Gun Carriage Lead Driver - where? when?
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 04 March 18 03:39 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if it is worth asking the army records - - with a gun carriage and cortege of that size you'd think it would have to be someone of high rank wouldn't you?

They may even have photos similar to yours.

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