Elizabeth Goodwin & Elizabeth Jones (Liverpool)

[kjmck]

I don't think it's your Elizabeth that married Patrick O'Flaherty the ages don't match up and there is this death...

O'FLAHERTY, ELIZABETH        82      
GRO Reference: 1952  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL SOUTH  Volume 10D  Page 469

My friend's father is a great grandson of the Elizabeth Jones born in 1878, and he said he remembers his grandfather Arthur's half-brother who were O'Flaherty's.... so it has to be 

[kjmck]

Are you trying to work back from Arthur Thomas Jones, or towards the present from Elizabeth Goodwin?

With a name like Jones, there is a danger that we'll end up following the wrong family. "Start with what you know" is the mantra.

Assuming that you are starting from Arthur:

There are 3 Arthur Thomas Joneses registered in the Liverpool area in 1906, but none in 1907. Have you any other reference for his date of birth, the 1939 Register, for instance?

Does his marriage entry mention his father's occupation, or does it just say "deceased"?

I am trying to work back from Arthur Thomas Jones

JONES, ARTHUR  THOMAS     JONES     Order
GRO Reference: 1908  M Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 93

On Arthur's Marriage certificate his father John Jones is listed as a 'truck driver' so a driver of some sort. There are other tree's on Ancestry who have his parents as Henry & Mary Jones, but I have had no response so can't verify it.

He was born 8th December 1907 and registered Jan-Mar of 1908.

[solidrock]

I don't think it's your Elizabeth that married Patrick O'Flaherty the ages don't match up and there is this death...

O'FLAHERTY, ELIZABETH        82      
GRO Reference: 1952  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL SOUTH  Volume 10D  Page 469

My friend's father is a great grandson of the Elizabeth Jones born in 1878, and he said he remembers his grandfather Arthur's half-brother who were O'Flaherty's.... so it has to be 

We've got to many Elizabeths here. I thought you said your Elizabeth Goodson's 3rd marriage was to an O'Flaherty, I think I'm loosing the plot. What actual evidence have you of any of your names, like birth or marriage certs? Don't rely on Ancestry tree's unless they have citations with them.

[kjmck]

Okay so, there are two Elizabeth's I am talking about.

Arthur Thomas Jones born 1907 in Liverpool is the starting point.

*****
His mother Elizabeth Jones born 1878 in Liverpool is his mother. (She married a John Jones and then Patrick O'Flaherty)

I have her marriage record to Patrick O'Flaherty.
I have her in 1911 living with Patrick, their son Thomas Henry who is 1, and the 4 Jones children are also living there.

*****

Elizabeth Goodwin born circa 1851 in Liverpool is the above Elizabeth's mother. (She married Thomas Jones & then Thomas Hawksey).

I have her marriage record to Thomas Hawksey where she is listed as a widow, fathers name John Goodwin (Mariner)

**

So both Elizabeth's were married twice.

[solidrock]

Thank you for clarifying the details. I have the 1911, where is Patrick ?

[solidrock]

I'm starting with Arthur Thomas Jones like you...

JONES, ARTHUR  THOMAS      JONES      
GRO Reference: 1908  M Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 93 

First hurdle, I can't find a marriage for Elizabeth Jones,(1878) to a John Jones. There is a marriage in 1898, Liverpool to Thomas Jones which I can only assume is correct as their son John Jones in the 1911 was born 1898 but no mmn listed in GRO.

JONES, JOHN        -      
GRO Reference: 1898  M Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 23

Also no mmn...

JONES, WILLIAM  JOHN      -      
GRO Reference: 1901  M Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 89 

[lancsann]

There is a marriage of an Elizabeth JONES to John Jones at West Derby register office or registrar attended (source Lancashirebmd) in 1897

Or perhaps more likely

1900 in Toxteth Park again register office or registrar attended

[kjmck]

My mistake you are right, there is no Patrick living with them in 1901, Elizabeth is living with her step-father Thomas Hawksey.

Another confusing thing to throw into the mix is this, the children of Elizabeth & Patrick O'Flaherty (Half-siblings to Arthur Thomas Jones).

O'FLAHERTY, THOMAS  HENRY     JONES     Order
GRO Reference: 1909  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 105

O'FLAHERTY, JAMES       JONES     Order
GRO Reference: 1911  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 227

O'FLAHERTY, WINIFRED  EMMA     GOODWIN     Order
GRO Reference: 1914  S Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 186

Births Sep 1918
O'Flaherty    William M    Goodwin    Liverpool    8b   185     Scan available - click to view
Births Jun 1920   (>99%)
O'Flaherty    Edward    Goodwin    Liverpool    8b   245     Scan available - click to view

There is no marriage I can find for an O'Flaherty to a Goodwin, and I have confirmed with a relative that these children all come from Elizabeth & Patrick, but for some reason she began using the name Goodwin on their birth registrations.

I don't know what these people were up to 

[kjmck]

I think I will come back to this at a later date!