James Steele (1827-1897) + Mary Young (1827-1899)

[ndhubbard]

Hello all,

I'm looking for helping with leads on the families of James Steele (1827-1897) and Mary Young (1827-1899) in England.  The couple had emigrated to Canada, were married, and living in Hamilton, Wentworth, Ontario, by 1861 (when they start appearing in census records there). A death certificate for their daughter Elizabeth Steele Jackson from Dec 1936 that lists her mother as Mary Grey instead of Young. At the same period of time there was a George Steele who lived within walking distance of the family, and was born in the 1830s so could be a brother.

Death details:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-632Q-CR7?i=679&cc=1307826
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q93-C9YJ-Y9QN-3?i=510&cc=1307826

All of their children, except their first (Jane), were born in Ontario according to the census records (I have not seen birth records for any of them).  They were also all married in Ontario (their marriage records all show their parents as James and Mary).

Children (approximate birthdates and accurate marriage dates):
Jane Steele - b. 1853 (m. 1873  Benson Chrysler)
Jessie M Steele - b. 1855 (m. 1871 James Mungo Main)
Mary "Mamie" Steele - b. 1857 (m. 1881 James Delmer Mills)
Eliza Steele - b. 1859 (m. 1882 Frederick Elias MacDonald)
James Steele - b. 1864 (m. 1888 Jane Ellen Patrick)
Elizabeth "Lizzie" Steele - b. 1868 (m. 1889 Walter Dixon Jackson)
Isabella Steele - b. 1872 (m. 1889 to John Hamilton Terryberry)

I'm hoping to find information on their parentage to begin researching the lines further in England.

Thank you for your help!

[rosie99]

Duplicate post Canada
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=789105.

[AMBLY]

And another duplicate earlier post here from Dec 2017, in Scotland, with replies
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=783557.0

ndhubbard : to avoid duplication of effort and time spent in trying to help you, it's best to cross reference your posts - by pasting the link as above, and refer to what info you have already received.


The daughter Jane:

In her marriage dated 12 Feb 1873*, to Benson Chrysler, she is stated as being age 21 born Scotland (abt 1852).  *It looks like this marriage wasn't actually registered until 1877? Parents recorded and James and Mary STEEL (no maiden surname listed for mother)

Canadian Census:
In the 1881 Census, age 28, b England (abt 1853), origin: English
In the 1891 Census, age 37, b England (abt 1854) , parents b England.
In the 1901 Census, 47 born Aug 5, 1853 England. Imm 1860,  Tribe" Scotch"
In the 1911 Census, she says Mar 1854, b England, Imm 1861, Tribe "Scotch"
In the 1921 Census, age 65, b England (abt 1856), parents b England.Imm 1860, Tribe "English".

An online tree, has her death as 1941. It would be good to know what her mother's details are recorded as on her death cert?

If she was born in England, then she is born after Civil Registration began (1837), although there were many births that were not registered despite the law. Cannot find her on the GRO site: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

If she was born in Scotland, then she was born before  Civil Registration began there (in 1855) - and so Parish Records are the records to look in, generally baptisms where the actual day of birth may or may not be recorded - and that's if the baptism is recorded at all. Many were not, or have not survived. Can't find anything on Scotland's people.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Is this the 1861 Census you refer to?

1861: Hamilton, Wentworth, Canada West
James 30? 40?  Labourer, b England, C of E. (Abt 1820? 1830?)
Mary 30, b England (abt 1831)
Jane 11, b England (abt 1850)
Jesse 6, b U Canada (abt 1855)
Mary 4, b U Canada (abt 1857)
Eliza 2, b U Canada (abt 1859)

Cheers
AMBLY

[MaureeninNY]

Nothing much on my part:
1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MVFV-J5J

You'd think Isabella would show up on the Ontario births.

Maureen

[ndhubbard]

Thank you all for taking a look at this, and for the suggestions on forum etiquette; referencing posts is smart and I should have thought of that!

To follow-up on your reply, AMBLY, the reason I moved this over from Scotland is that the majority of records I've found for the family (census and death) list them as being of English origin, and members of the Church of England. Replies to the Scotland post encouraged me to look in the direction of England. That said, there are some references as you suggest that point to them being Scots, and another Steele descendant has it through family knowledge that James Steele was born there.

You are correct, that is the 1861 census I'm referring to. Here is James again in the 1871 census.
www.familysearch.org/search/collection/results

In that 1891 census, Jane is living next door to her sister Jessie (my 2nd great grandmother).  Jessie's parents are also listed as coming from England.

[ndhubbard]

A couple of additions to the conversation - the death records for a few of James and Mary's children show the following inconsistent information:

Mary Steele Mills (1857-1925)
Father - James Steele. b. England
Mother - unknown b. Scotland

James Steele (1864-1930)
Father - James Steele b. Scotland
Mother - unknown b. Scotland

Elizabeth (Lizzie) Steele Jackson (1864-1936)
Father - James Steele b. England
Mother - Mary Grey b. England

And I think I left James + Mary's gravestone off the repost, but that clearly lists her name as Young.  Two of their granddaughters--Jessie Young Macdonald and Isabella Young Main--also appear to have received her maiden name for middle names.

[ndhubbard]

Following up here that I haven't been able to find any more leads, but I was able to get another death certificate - for my 2nd great grandmother Jessie Steele Main. More conflicting information - lists here parents as Scottish.

Any suggestions on ways to proceed would be greatly appreciated!

[ndhubbard]

I just spent awhile going through old newspapers and more conflicting information that suggests Scottish or English origin for this family.

Anyone with experience in Ontario UK immigrants have advice on why there would be this ping-pong of listing different origins? Could it have to do with bringing two families together? Because eventually my Steele ancestor (whose parents may have been Church of England) married into a staunchly Presbyterian family.

[ndhubbard]

I have a lead on this!

I came across a random website with a variant obituary for James Steele, and it indicates that he emigrated from Berwick-on-Tweed. That explains all the English/Scottish confusion! Right on the border, the northernmost part of England.

I’m going to pursue this thread, but if anyone has recommendations (or thoughts on the COE vs Presb question) please reply.