Author Topic: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800  (Read 1275 times)

Offline CaroSG

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Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« on: Saturday 10 March 18 11:58 GMT (UK) »
Good day, I hope I can obtain a bit of help on these two ancestors of mine.  I cannot find any information on their births or baptisms or indeed origins, apart from what I state below.


They both state on Middlesex records that they were born in Berwick-upon-Tweed, but I simply cannot find birth or baptism records for them on Familysearch, Ancestry, or Findmypast. 

I was wondering if there are records in existence that are not available on those three abovementioned websites and if I should go to the Library of LDS here in Johannesburg in South Africa to look at the microfilms.

There are many people on Ancestry who have linked these two men (erroneously I think) to a Peter Dewar and Jane Craig Dewar, who married (I think they must be the same couple) 18 MAY 1799 Coldingham, Berwick, Scotland who have several children baptised at Chapel Street or Shaws Lane or Relief Chap Berwick upon Tweed England.  Everyone seems to see the Robert, and assumes he is Robert Dewar b. 1801.

Here are the children of Peter and Jane.   
John b. 1800 bapt 1800
Jane b. 1803, bapt 1803
Robert no dob, bapt 1804
Alice b 1808, bapt 1808
Peter b. 1811, bapt 1811
Eliza b. 1815, bapt 1815
 
It is also noticeable that my Robert Dewar b.1801 has children named, John James, Robert, James William, Bathsheba Isabella (after her mother Nash) George Elliott (after his g.father Nash), Richard, and Elizabeth Esther.  Most noticeable that there are no children named Peter or Jane, and indeed there is absolutely no Peter in the records of these two Dewar men.

This is what I know.

JAMES DEWAR, a Mate. 
---------------------------
He married 9 July 1826, St Matthews, Bethnal Green, of that parish.

On the Dreadnought Hospital records on 11 Dec 1836, is 43 years old (thus born in 1794) and states born Berwick-upon-Tweed. A Mate.  5 yrs Royal Navy, 24 years Merchant Navy.  (Goodness me... did he start at sea age 14???)

I cannot find him on 1841 census.  I think he must have been away at sea.

He dies on 26 November 1848 in St George East, Middlesex. 
Wesleyan, Non-conformist burial register

I do not think he had any children.

ROBERT DEWAR, a mariner.
------------------------------
Estimate birth year to be 1801.

Married 22 Aug 1831, St Leonard, Shoreditch, England of that parish.

1841 census. I cannot find him although I can find his wife and children.   I think he must have been away at sea.

1851 census aged 50, says b. Scotland, Berwick-upon-Tweed.

1861 census aged 60, says under where born Berwick.

1971 census aged 72, says Berwick on Tweed, Scotland.

Dies 1880, states age 79.


If James served 5 + 24 years at sea and is 43 when this is stated it means he was 14 when he joined the Navy.  Would that mean he came down from Scotland with his parents?  There is a 7 year age gap between him and his brother Robert (assumed brother, because these two men married sisters), so there could be other siblings between them.  Believe me I have hunted all over the websites to find another Dewar residing in England born in Berwick upon Tweed on a Census, BMor D and have had no luck.  Although it doesn't rule out that his parents left Scotland just after their births and had other children born in England of course.

Half the problem is that I don't know if there is actually anywhere else to look.  The year 1800 does not seem very far back to be honest, so perhaps there are records I just have not accessed.  Possibly because Non-conformist records are not online?  I simply can't make out which parishes or congregations are on Familysearch and even if there are some missing.

Could some kind soul who knows these Northumberland records give me some assistance please? Or perhaps someone can "see" something I cannot. 

Many thanks
Caroline
(my mother was Daphne Dewar)



Offline sgf28

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 10 March 18 14:47 GMT (UK) »
Britain Merchant Seaman record might be Robert Dewar's, gives a date of birth:

Ticket No. 13084

Robert Dewar born at Berwick, County of Berwick
Date of birth: 27th May 1800

5Ft 5inches,dark grey hair,blue eyes and fresh complexion.

First went to sea as an apprentice in 1814
No service in Royal Navy or Foreigh Service

When unemployed, resides at Commercial Road.

Issued at London, 22nd January 1845

Offline solidrock

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 11 March 18 04:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi,
Have'nt been able to confirm Roberts birth yet but is this his marriage...

Robert Dewar  m  Bathsheba Nash.  22 Aug 1831, Saint Leonards,Shoreditch.

Are these his children...

John James Dewar. b 15 Sep 1836, baptised 23 Oct 1836, Saint Leonards,Shoreditch.

DEWAR, ROBERT        mmn NASH      
GRO Reference: 1839  S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE (IN THE EAST) IN THE COUNTY OF MIDDLE  Volume 02  Page 78

DEWAR, JAMES  WILLIAM      mmn NASH      
GRO Reference: 1844  M Quarter in SAINT GEORGE (IN THE EAST)  Volume 02  Page 93

DEWAR, BETHSHEBA  ISABELLA      mmn NASH      
GRO Reference: 1846  M Quarter in THE WHITE CHAPEL UNION  Volume 02  Page 607

DEWAR, GEORGE  ELLIOTT      mmn NASH      
GRO Reference: 1847  D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL UNION  Volume 02  Page 545    

DEWAR, RICHARD        mmn NASH        
GRO Reference: 1850  M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL  Volume 02  Page 597

DEWAR, ELIZABETH  ESTHER      mmn NASH      
GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE (IN THE EAST)  Volume 01C  Page 379

Offline solidrock

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 11 March 18 04:55 GMT (UK) »
Maybe...

Robert Dewar  born  28/07/1797, Chirnside.  father John Dewar,  mother Isabel Mitchel.

Chirnside is about 10 miles from Berwick.


Online RJ_Paton

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 11 March 18 11:11 GMT (UK) »
There were a number of Dewar families in the area around that time (My Great x5 grandfather was Peter Dewar) born around 1766 and who is believed to be the son of James Dewar & Sarah Johnston from Chirnside.

Unfortunately the records in Chirnside are poor and in addition to this you had the Stamp Duty of 3 pence imposed on every Registration from 1783 to 1794 which may have hindered poorer families from recording births.

Offline CaroSG

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 March 18 15:48 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for these replies.  So "Solidrock" and "Falkyrn" you have given me Dewars in Chirnside, Berwick and apart from the d.o.b. the record would be promising for John b.1797 as his father is John and mother Isabel, both names which were used for his own children.  Is there nothing for a James however?  If not, then I fear your John would not be my John, don't you think?  This Chirnside place....... is that on Ancestry or similar, or have you accessed this information from original records?  Because if you have accessed it yourself, it makes me think there are other records available not on Ancestry or Familysearc.

And "sgf28" there is a mariner record for 1845 for a John Dewar b. 1800, from Berwick Berwickshire (which I had seen on FindMyPast but not been able to access - which I am really pleased to have, it just may be my Robert's record - it looks promising)

But.    The one niggle in my mind is that both James' hospital record and Robert's census records state born in Berwick-upon-Tweed.   How likely is it that they were born in Berwick, and not Northumberland, and simply that their geography was bad?  Surely they would have stated Berwick-upon-Tweed, and not Berwick - for the recorder to write it down incorrectly.  Or was it a common error?  Robert does say he was born in Scotland, but perhaps he just was not "with it" in history.

This is certainly more information I have today than yesterday, so thanks very much indeed.

Would you have any idea if all available records for Presbyterian, Wesleyan etc religions are on Ancestry, FindMyPast and Familysearch?   Perhaps only the Anglican church has been transcribed.  If I thought there were some other records, I would make a real effort to get hold of them.


Thanks "solidrock" yes this is my Robert Dewar and his family.   I have been searching his records for ages looking for a way through his own birth brick wall.  Sometimes I look at everything again, just in case I missed something.

Offline CaroSG

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 11 March 18 16:19 GMT (UK) »
Oh, I do see now that Chirnside is available on Familysearch. 

Offline solidrock

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 13 March 18 00:49 GMT (UK) »




ROBERT DEWAR.  28/07/1797, Chirnside.  parents JOHN DEWAR/ISABEL MITCHEL

This record is on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Chirnside is in Berwickshire, Scotland.    Berwick-upon-Tweed is in Northumberland, England.
   

   


   

   

   


   

Offline solidrock

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Re: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland - Dewar pre 1800
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 13 March 18 05:43 GMT (UK) »
Long shot but could be Roberts father...

John Dewar.  born 22 Aug 1775, baptised 24 Sep 1775, ST JAMES BLACKETT ST FORMERLY SILVER ST-INDEP OR PNEWC,NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE,NORTHUMBERLAND. to Henry and Sarah Dewar.

Henry Dewar  m  Sarah Hall. 19 Jul 1774, All Saints,Newcastle Upon Tyne,Northumberland.