Help with record and brick wall please

[Taylor111]

Hello all, this is really puzzling me. I think I have the right people but not 100%

Please bare with its a long one, but want to get as many facts in a possible.

I'm trying to find my 3rd great grandmother's parents and that the 1841 census I have is actually her.

I'm going to start with what I know, family was not close, so just going on records.

Mother was born June Mason 1937 in Mansfield Nottinghamshire.
Her parents were

John Jack Mason born 1905 Oldham to James Mason and Mary Kennedy (Will come back to these as its this line I am tracing)

John Jack married Florence Bettison in 1930 Mansfield.

I don't have a death for John Jack or his father James.

But Mary Kennedy died 16 JUL 1934 in Mansfield.

It is her line I am looking forward..

So I have Mary Kennedy born 05 NOV 1877  Oldham
To a Mary Gillespie Born 08 JAN 1847 Pallyards, Cumberland
and Mary Gillespie dying Mary Kennedy 1 OCT 1899 in Oldham.

Mary Gillespie married John Kennedy 13 Dec 1875 in Oldham.

John Kennedy died 01 MAY 1930 in Oldham.

So back to who I am really looking for, Mary Gillspie family..

Mary was born to I believe John Gillespie born 6 JUL 1810 Pallyards, Stapleton, Cumberland to a Richard and a Mary I believe (but not chasing them yet either)

And Elizabeth Linton (this is who I am after) Elizabeth born 10 Feb 1826 in Scotland.. On ancestry is says father John Linton and mother Nancy Tidman.

Elizabeth Linton I have marrying John Gillespie on 17 Dec 1846 Stapleton, Cumberland, England. (This is not far from Scotland boarders, who where I believe she was in the 1841 census)

So this is where it ha got tricky, if I am right on all above.. The only Elizabeth Linton born between 1800 and 1835 with father being a John and mother a Nancy was born 10/02/1826..

But I can not find a marriage with a John Linton or a Nancy or anyone with the surname Tidman.

The 1841 census I have has below
John Linton    50
John Linton    21
James Linton    15
George Linton    10
Jane Linton    40
Elizabeth Linton    17
Frances Linton    12
Jane Linton    10
Janet Linton    2
Mary Bell    35
Margaret Rome    20
John Johnston    55
John Robinson    25

It has a Elizabeth born in 1824, but there is only only Elizabeth Linton I can find born to a John within a 30 year span. And no other Elizabeth Linton's are born within a 2 year span either side of 1824 with any father name. their all 1829 or higher.

I am including a snippet of the birth I have for Elizabeth...
Hoping someone can confirm if the 1841 census I have is my Elizabeth and who her mother was and where the marriage is, if any.

Thanks for bearing with. 

[ev]

And Elizabeth Linton (this is who I am after) Elizabeth born 10 Feb 1826 in Scotland.. On ancestry is says father John Linton and mother Nancy Tidman.

Does the term "natural daughter" mean Nancy and John were not married ?
Has John Linton been sent to Van Diemen's Land ?



ev

[Taylor111]

I have no idea?

Has John Linton been sent to Van Diemen's Land ? (Not sure what you mean? sorry)

[Wendy2305]

I have no idea?

Has John Linton been sent to Van Diemen's Land ? (Not sure what you mean? sorry)

Van Diemen's Land was Tasmania being sent there usually meant that they were transported for some crime

Also natural daughter does mean the parents weren't married I believe

[Wendy2305]

There is a marriage of an Agnes Tidman in 1830 at Westerkirk in Dumfries & Galloway Agnes and Nancy are interchangeable in Scotland

Also not all baptisim pre 1855 were recorded or have survived so the baptisim you have found may not be for your Elizabeth what information is on the marriage certificate Are their any clues in the names of their children

[ev]

Could it be that Nancy(Agnes) Tidman went on to marry Alexander Graham 1830 Westerkirk Dumfries ?(Familysearch)
There is an Elizabeth Graham age 14 with Alexander and Agnes Graham in Canonbie Dumfries on the 1841 Census(FreeCEN).
An Alexander Graham and Nancy Tidman had a son James in 1830 Eskdalemuir Dumfries.


ev

[MonicaL]

Connected old posts for Alexander Graham and Nancy/Agnes Tidman here that might be of interest here www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=366465.18

Monica 

[Annette7]

As has been said, Elizabeth Linton bp.10/2/1826 was the natural daughter of Nancy Tidman, Burncleugh and John Linton to Van Diemens Land i.e. the parents were not married and father John Linton had already been sent to Van Diemens Land or was about to.

There are 2 birth entries for Tidman in Eskdalemuir, Dumfries:

Mary Tidman bp.4/10/1811, dau. of Robert
Jean Tidman bp.27/2/1815, dau. of Robert

Think I have found Nancy Tidman's birth/baptism:

Nancy Tideman b.14/6/1808, bp.14/8/1808 Langholm (just SW of Eskdalemuir), dau. of Robert Tideman and Elizabeth Beattie.

Robert Tideman married Eliza Beattie 12/8/1808 Langholm - so from the baptism we see that Nancy was born 2 months before her parents married and baptised 2 days after!

There are no other Tideman/Tidman baptisms in Langholm and no other ones in Eskdalemuir in the right time frame except for aforementioned Mary and Jean.

It is a common anomaly that children born illegitimately in Scotland would more often than not still have their fathers surname.

Reading the other posts it certainly does seem as if Nancy Tidman married Alexander Graham as 'Agnes' Tidman in 1830 and a son baptised the same year in Eskdalemuir shows her as 'Nancy'.

As to who John Linton was - who can say?   Clearly he was, or was about to be, sent to Van Diemans Lane, Tasmania (convict) in 1826 when Elizabeth baptised.   He certainly wouldn't have been around in the UK in 1841.

Annette 

[Taylor111]

I really don't know.. for Elizabeth Linton I have the 1851, 1861, 1871 census which all say birth place Scotland.. which all birth year as 1827..

On the 1881 census it says birth place Eskdale, Scotland, 1891 and 1901 says Scotland again.

And 1901 says Eshdalemin, Scotland, which there is no such place.. but believe the 1901 and 1881 are meant to be saying Eskdalemuir, which is where the birth record matches.

The 1841 census address, is only 20 minutes from where Elizabeth married John Gillspie.
And there is no other 1941 census in Scotland with a Elizabeth Linton anywhere around her age.

This makes me think this is why it could also be her..

On the 1841 census there is also a Jane Linton age 40, If my Elizabeth is the one on that 1841 census, then I believe her father died in 1851 an on the 1851 and 1861 there is a Jane Linton, the 1851 has the same address but 61 does not. Also on them is mentions a ''Bell'' in the 1841 and 1861 and on 61 says sister.

There's a marriage with a JEAN BELL and John Linton (possible Elizabeth father) in 1835 in gretna which is where the 41,51 census is.

Any ideas on this ? thanks